Agreed there's a very interesting article in performance bikes about the geometry and centre of gravity comparing the 848, Daytona 675 and the mv F3. The 848 has the longest wheelbase and lowest centre of gravity which gives it the high stability and good feeling through long sweeping corners where the other 2 bikes were better at sharp corners and quick direction changes. Is this what they are aiming for with the 899?
I would agree, I've just traded in my Daytona 675 after 3 years with it and it does feel taller and shorter (if that makes sense) it handled very well and steered easier than the 848 on initial turning but didn't give anywhere near as much confidence. The newest Daytona's steer much better and still feel a little more stable with lots of weight low down from the exhaust etc. My suspicion is that they have done the same thing with the 899, tried to move the weight, shorten wheelbase but maintain stability.
The wheelbase will have an effect, but you cannot simply compare wheelbase of different bikes due to the different CoGs that they will have. Things like rear ride-height will affect where the rider sits and therefore affect CoG. Rake and trail will also have an effect on how the bike feels, along with fork travel and suspension settings, when turning the bike. Fiddling with these can make the same bikes (same wheelbase/CoG) feel different to ride - which is part of the black art of motorcycle racing and finding the right "settings". But my point is that it may well be that the shorter wheelbase was used on the 899 to counteract the difference in the double-sided swingarm (it's lighter?) and therefore the net effect is that it has the same CoG and therefore handling characteristics as the 1199.
I find this sort of shit very interesting at the moment. I'm considering changing to 30mm offset triple clamps on the 848 to speed up turn in but wondering if it's not gonna have the affect I want as the 848 is maybe just too long in the frame compared to quicker steering bikes.
What you need is a shorter frame with a long swingarm, but you can't have that thanks to the engine layout. This is what Ducati are trying to achieve while not upsetting the ducatisti, obviously with limited success.
Cos of that great big cylinder sticking out the front. Now they've changed the frame and swingarm we might see a new V-angle in a few year
Ref Ducati's long front cylinder, I'm not sure it's miles longer than that of (for example) the Daytona 675 triple engine which has the radiator and exhaust and oil cooler and balance shaft between the crank and the front wheel. I agree though that the engine is 'longer' than they would ideally like. The article posted mentioned that they have changed the engine position to alter weight balance, sounds as if they have rolled it back even reference to the 1199??
This is what the frameless design is all about; trying to keep the L-twin to please the great unwashed while producing a bike that handles in the accepted sense (ie. like all the other bikes). Eventually Ducati will realise that to be like all the other bikes they will have to build the same bike as all the others. And not be different. Do we want that?
I don't. I'd far sooner have the extra effort to turn in and the "on rails" feeiing once it is turned in, than the thing turning in at the slightest flick and feeling as if it might head for the hedge if it hit a bump. I like the slower handling of Ducatis. OK, it's not so good for a nadgery mountain road, but it's a lot better for following a flowing river valley. Ducatis do feel very different to other bikes, both engine and handling wise. That's the whole point. That's their charm.
The 916 had two steering head angle settings - one for improved speed of turn in. It was delivered standard with the slower angle for the road. I can't remember if the 999 is like that too - I thought maybe it was (though if it is, maybe I should be speeding up my steering a bit). I have no idea if the 1098 and 848 gave you that option, but if they didn't, it's a bit of a backward step, no?
My 749S had an unsuitable steering head angle. I'm defo buying an 889 but I'm not home til April 2015 so I'll get an S model
I'll be surprised if they do an S model after there was no 848s. Maybe they think there isn't enough market for an s model on the smaller bike. Looking at my evo corse SE specs maybe they should have called it an 'almost an 848s'
Yea lol I might even agree with you on this one Andy. It's like there saying we started making an S and if you want to finish it off throw a few grand at it.
It's a good point about not having an S model - maybe it's down to the pricing? "Why buy an S model when you can have an 1199" thinking? But then again, stick a paint job on it and maybe some LED headlights, some of the electronic suspension (as this stuff will fit straight on) and you could call it a Tricolore or a Special Edition Corse something...
