Bradders - yes, one can become a Christian. My point is one does not become a Christian merely by attending a church service once a week. I know people who are committed aethiests who display far more of what I would describe as "Christian values" (care, compassion, willingness to help others, and generally being a nice person) than many church-goers I have met, and do so because they genuinely are nice people, not because a 2000 year-old fairy story tells them to...
Those aren't christian values. Christian values are about being mean, intolerant, judgemental, exclusive, irrational and bigoted. I would be quite offended if anyone told me I exemplified christian values - I like to flatter myself that my moral and ethical standards are far higher than that. And I suspect yours are too.
Ahhh... Pete... What can I say? I agree entirely with your comment. Perhaps I should have said "what Christian values ought to be..." What they actually are, in my experience, is exactly what you have described. And that is a clear illustration of the difference between organised religion and just being a nice person...
So all Christians are, by definition, intolerant, judgemental, exclusive, irrational and bigoted then? Isn't Nelson Mandela a Christian?
[TABLE] [TR] [TD="class: siteLogo"]This dude[/TD] [TD="class: navigation"] [/TD] [TD="class: navigation"]0 is wise and very very old.[/TD] [TD="class: navigation"]0 [/TD] [TD="class: navigation"]0 [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? Epicurus more quotes Guest, Guest, Guest, Guest, Guest, Guest, Guest, Guest, Guest, Guest ...and others ShareThis Copy and Paste - See more at: Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
No, not by definition. Some individuals are able to transcend the limitations of the doctrines they supposedly believe in, and the nastiness of their religious institutions. If only they all could!
we can only speak as we find - it's not right to generalise about the kind of people who go to church - just as there are the hypocrites that I am only too aware of, there can be Christians equally as good as your two very close friends. Despite the fact that I have only gone in a church for Weddings and Funerals for the last 40 years, circumstances have arisen where I most definitely owe part of my present sanity to one Christian and his wife yet I have hardly done a thing for them (and this isn't an isolated case in the congregation i'm talking about). Find an old school church with correct values and it's highly possible that there will be some good people in there.
A mate of mine's wife died of cancer a few years back, and as you can imagine he was in tatters. For weeks his fiercely Christian neighbour avoided him to such an extent that it was noticeable to everyone, so I tackled her over it. The problem, apparently, was that he was planning to bury his wife rather than cremate her, and the neighbour said it would "contaminate the cemetary. God had her killed because she never went to church, so she must not be buried there". That's what religion does to some people.
A great many religions have a lot that is very good in how you should treat yourself and others. Which most people would be fine with. Problem is you then mix it with Homo Sapiens and all there innate issues and things can and do go Pete Tong. My religion/god is better than yours etc etc. I'm the chosen race, your not. Plus - your wrong, my god says so; so I can kill you blah blah. Much like communism really. Fine on paper until you let Homo Saps. in :frown:
i think if you ever have more than one real, true friend throughout your entire life then you are doing better than most people.
Just like all bikers are evil child eating, Virgin raping satan worshipping harley riders, all religious people are bigoted zealots with no forgiveness or ability to offer comfort to strangers or non-conformist friends alike genius
Where does this "all" come from then? It's not "all" - some are, some aren't and nobody said "all" did they?
