Should we not be better than this?

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by RadiheadR6, Nov 20, 2013.

  1. True, but there are quite a lot of tectonic plate boundaries running around the planet, so geothermal is viable in an awful lot of locations. Have you visited the Roman baths in the city of Bath?
     
  2. in a resource based economy there is NO need for money. One has to readjust one's thinking on this....money is not required to grow crops because they are not sold, they are given away in exchange. products are built using the best materials available, to last as long as possible, not to become obsolete...
    Take a look at the work Jacque Fresco as i have suggested, or The Venus Project just to expand your thinking (apologies if that sounds patronising- its not meant to)...
    Because we are so used to the economy based system we think its 'normal', when in fact 99% of the global wealth is owned by less than 10% of the population, and 1% own more than the rest..we've just accepted it as 'a way of life'...famines and such like are just thought of as 'normal', but they dont have to be with the technology at our disposal. Money produces an eternal conflict of interests...every pound, dollar, euro on the planet is owed to somebody, by somebody....
    The system doesn't work, because most people, even in affluent countries are in a perpetual state of survival..we are so used to this state of affairs that we don't even notice it....
    Take a quick look at Detroit to see what has happened there....I went back in the late 90's and it was one seriously scary city...now it's a ghost town..almost no one lives there..the reason? Money....There are literally blocks of entire skyscrapers that are empty, but people are homeless in the streets below..Why? Money...
    Here's a little video:
    The abandoned skyscrapers of Detroit - YouTube
     
  3. Communism is great in theory, money, tokens or trust what ever system we use, sooner or later the human condition will kick in and some one will want to be king.
     
  4. No I haven't visited the Roman baths in Bath, way too far south of Kendal. Small scale geothermal probably has a lot to recommend it but like a lot of these ideas scaling it up is probably challenging. Hot water is not a very convenient source of energy, superheated steam would be required to drive turbines to produce electricity. Proven technology though and no doubt it will play a part.
     
  5. geothermal energy is used to heat water to drive turbines, it is the most efficient method for producing power but is not being properly invested because, at the moment, bigger profits lay elsewhere...money ruining it again....instead we are wasting time with appeasement tactic like wind farms that only convert something 25% of their energy into electricity.....useless invention..

    here's one example of many, but there are also numerous other systems and tecnologies, not all of them requiring distribution through the centralised grid...homes can have autonomous geo thermal power, which once installed would be free forever....so there is no incentive for anyone to have limitless free power because companies want to make money...so money prevents the technology, not advances it.
    How a Geothermal Plant Works - YouTube
     
  6. I fail to understand how you would transfer the concept of double entry bookkeeping to a swapping X product for Y, style economy.

    Without double entry bookkeeping our money system doesn't work so i'm sure as fek that bartering wont.


    As it happens i don't agree that what we have now isn't working. Its clearly not good for a lot of people but they would not be better off in a different economy.
    Consider a subsistence farmer scratching a living in Namibia who cannot produce enough food for his family and therefore not enough to sell either. He will not be in a better position if someone tells him he can have a tractor for some maize when the quantity of maize required is 1000 times more than he has got.
     
  7. dude, just look it up
    :smile:
     
  8. A good example of a barter economy is Germany 1945-1949. After the collapse, the Reichsmark had lost all its value so the whole economy, such as it was, worked on the basis of bartering and requisitioning. Farmers swapped the food they produced for industrial products. And cigarettes were used mainly for barter, not for smoking. GDP was flat on its back.

    Then in 1949 the Deutschmark was introduced, with dramatic effects. A huge recovery began, with rapid and spectacular growth for several years. Just ask any German old enough to remember this era, whether they would like to go back to bartering.
     
  9. Re: geothermal energy.

    So, we take superheated liquid out of the ground and replace it with subcooled liquid - on an industrial scale all around the globe. Do you think there will be no price to pay for this? I suggest that the earth will protest quite heavily...
     
  10. the statistic is mind boggling small....the amount required (which is constantly renewed by earths natural processes without external intervention) is infinitesimally small...something like less than 1 to the 10,000th power of a percent..lots of the processes occur because of the enormous pressure beneath the earths crust, and due to the spinning of earth in orbit...it is the only unexhaustable resource and will last longer than the human race.
    We will never prosper as a species, nor be truly happy, until humans, by common consent agree that we a single species who have common ownership of the planet....not this little bit of land or that little bit...
    Human endeavour will be freed if people do not have to do boring, mundane and unnecessary work just to earn a paltry wage.....we will still be creative without having to work for a wage...
    think of all the free information people are willing to share, even on this very forum, for no other reward than to help someone else...it feels good helping people...
     
  11. I can't agree, as much as I'd like to (and I would like to). Manufacturing on any kind of decent scale would grind to a halt almost immediately without financial incentives. Take the motor car for instance; some bright spark invents a machine to transport you anywhere you want to go, fantastic. He says to his mates, 'I'll build you one for two cows and a bit of pasture', and so a handful of people now have cars. But thousands of people also want the motor car, which means the guy has to get people to help him build them, and someone to build a factory to make them in. So you have thousands of people bartering with the inventor to get hold of a car; he then has to barter with the builders to build his factory, barter with hundreds of factory staff to get them to work, barter with suppliers (who themselves are bartering like buggery with thousands of other people to produce their wares) to get the materials. Then he has to set up a network of people to ship, store, service and repair the motor cars. Basically, we'd all still be riding round in a horse and cart for the next hundred years before our car was ready for delivery.

    And that's all assuming every person in this chain of events is an affable, easy-going person who is prepared to make a fair deal. And we all know that ain't gonna happen any time soon. Add to this that in order to use your new motor car you need a network of fuel stations, a network of roads, and someone to teach you how to drive the bloody things.

    And that's just one example. Now take a look at your phone, your telly, your crockery and cutlery, etc, etc. None of these things would have happened on the scale they do happen were it not for money. No-one in their right mind would go to all the hassle of setting up any kind of bulk manufacturing process, and all the stress and hassle that goes with it, without a major incentive. Without money we'd still be on horseback, and the world's boundaries would shrink, not expand.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  12. "it is the only unexhaustable resource and will last longer than the human race."

    Other than the sun's energy of course.

    Which delivers more energy every day than we can use. The issue with energy is one of delivery(alternate infrastructure) not quantity.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. And the costs associated with harnessing that energy and converting it into a form that is convenient for our use. The Energy Returned On the Energy Invested (EROEI) is very significant, it is not merely how much are you prepared to pay but whether there is a net gain in energy returned compared to the energy invested. For example shale oil takes a great deal of energy to extract to the extent that in some cases it is estimated that EROEI is less than 1, ie you get less out than you put in.
     
  14. And the Americans are about to demonstrate via their shale oil reserve finds of recent years that they are likely to be free of dependance on Saudi Arabia in just a couple of years.

    You see , its not all doom and gloom .
     
  15. When people work without getting financial rewards, that is what is known as slavery. The slaves have to be provided with material goods like food, clothing, shelter, etc. to live. In some cases they might be treated kindly, and their provisions might be on a lavish scale, but they are not paid any money and thus have no discretion what to spend it on. If the condition is permanent and without option, that is how you can tell it is slavery.
     
  16. I don't think so. There are quite a few resources which are, in effect, inexhaustible on the scale upon which the human race could use them.
     

  17. this is the last time im going to say this:

    read the info online, and watch a fucking documentary...
     
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