engine blown

Except the plan was to pick up another

 

If the oil has the correct API I cant see how they can state its no good

 

I nor Ducati are not saying its no good but just because all oils attain the same standard does not mean they are all as good as each other.

Have a look at this american link.


Synthetic Motorcycle Oils Four-Ball Wear Test Comparison

 

I agree. Though if that standard is one that is deemed to support the serviceable lifetime of the engine (with correct service intervals), then why would you need anything else. Your just driving up the cost of ownership.

I would suspect that the engines in modern bikes will out last the bikes ancillaries, so are the least of your worries.

 

Duke, So its no reason for anyone to suggest its at cause for a fault which, if a different oil were used, would be covered then. That is what all the negatives in your statement is suggesting to me. In which case its not worth mentioning on bikes of this age, mileage and service history

 

Ooh yes an amsoil advert lol.

All oils have standards, let's say minimum standards with various tests during qualification.
The motorcycle manufacturers decide what this should be.
You or a dealer then use nothing less than that standard ensuring the viscosity also meets the requirements.

Of course all oils are different and there will be differences as there are in all things.... like hovis versus kingsmill but over a given service interval the correct oil will suffice.

You pays your daily bread and takes your chances.

 

Its still like saying all helmets give the same levels of safety because they meet the BS mark. It just isn't true.

I'm not saying it's the reason these bikes failed because i don't know that reason.

Another thing to ponder on. I was told when leaving an engine to labour in too high a gear, the big ends take a huge extra load over and above what they would normally expect. This is very easy to do in a v- twin as the engine generally will eventually haul itself through the labouring with the torque.

 

Without stating the obvious isnt that true of all things that are different.

Thats why standards are in place. It passed that test on that day.

 

Yeah, I've got to say, I've been pondering this. The ride by wire throttle does hugely improve throttle response at lower engine speeds. I know this from my time with the loaner mutely and the hyper.

A while ago, we saw a number of posts where owners were commenting on the low (engine) speed characteristics, implying that riders were using their motors at lower rpms than previous models. This could be a factor in busted bottom ends.

 

I find keeping it above 7k wortks for me

 

We are getting into some very complex areas here, the comments that a good mechanic will spot the tell tales and perhaps give an idea of the cause of failure is correct to a point but let's not forget that as an engine fails it usually destroys most of the evidence, even the manufacturer will only have theories until these have been proved and this wont usually be until a number of engines have been seen in various states of failure.

Fault elimination in the after sales area of an Engine manufacturer is a very very complex subject as the symptom usually has a very loose connection with the cause and as already mentioned the evidence is usually destroyed as the fault usually manifests itself at the weakest part and no matter how well designed there will always be a weakest part.

Don't think that this is easy, it takes years of experience and every day is a school day, there are probably only a handful of people in Europe with the skills to do this type of work.

Onto oils and approved products, this is true but you have to remember that an oil usually gains approval by passing a test in a test cell, it's usually about the acid level and the way it handles contaminants at the end of the test but you will get the situation where oil A passes the test but is almost dead whereas oil B passes the test and would probably go again, think about an athletic event, if a fat engineer and Usaine Bolt were to have a test where they had to run 100m in 30 seconds, we would both pass but does that mean that I am as good an athlete as Mr Bolt, that is exactly the situation with oils although expensive does not necessarily mean better.

 

you're selling this bike Phil??

 

Hopefully no one else will buy a multi then I can pick my next one up for peanuts

 

This is a very good point,
If you take into account the extra force on the main and big end bearings through the toque created, add to that the engine is revving slower so the oil feed is not as fast and the fact that the oil is probably finding it hard to fill the friction gap between the crank and the bearing surface because of the toque, and the extra toque is pushing what oil there is out of the friction gap. Add all that to the fact the less oil means less heat is getting carried away and this would mean the bearing and crank would be running warmer than it should. I can see how this theory is correct.
Do this a few times every journey and the problem will just get worse and worse as the wear and property's of the heated bearing change and accelerate the effect until something gets far to hot and BANG! the engine is gone.

Right I'm off back to bed my head hurts.

 

Good point but never heard of many TLs or sp1/2s shitting their arses out the cases so I still think failures are a ducati specific issue

 

Sounds like a good reason to keep it above 7k to me

 

At tickover, the oil pressure around the crank is about 2psi. Maximum is 6psi. So even at 3,000 revs the bearings should be getting enough oil.

My point about low speed running was that the bearings would take more of a beating than at higher revs, potentially causing damage.

 

Do you think when everybody starts riding again threads like this will finally end?

ompus: