In a time of economic difficulty, Joe Public are always going to be pissed off and vote for people that pander to simplistic populist and often downright irresponsible policy. Because it superficially appears to improve their lot in life, which at the moment is harsh. However, they weren't complaining under champagne solcialism (oxymoron) when they were all living well beyond their means. Labour won back to back. And now there is a payback. Democracy - worst form of government aside from all the others etc....... Hopefully we will see some slightly stronger politicians at some point.
Wont happen Cham. The days of Tony Benn, whther you agree with his political and often stir-crazy ideas or not, are gone. A man who pit principle and honesty and the middle of everuthing he did, rather than self-gain and public impression
Uh, yes? Welcome back, John! The real power of any elected government lies with an unelected element. Every time.
When I see Cameron doing 'selfies',and Clegg talking about 'I passed the problem up the food chain',I despair.Poor old Ed is just about to be toppled from his party for being ,according to a significant number of Labour MP's,a liability going into the next election.who does that leave us with?
On the contrary, the gradual shift to having a strong third party in England, which we have experienced over the past 20 years, seems to have gone into reverse. The two main parties appear to be returning to their old (joint) dominance. Just look at the actual figures.
"Unelected"? Perhaps you have forgotten that in the UK: our Head of state is unelected our upper chamber of Parliament is unelected our Prime Minister is unelected our judges are unelected our civil servants are unelected our generals and admirals are unelected our CEOs of corporations are unelected and hardly any of our constitutional provisions have ever been approved by any kind of referendum. If you were genuinely opposed to "unelected" positions and in favour of more elections, or referendums, there is a long list of places to start. Oddly enough, the European Parliament is one of the very short list of bodies which really are directly elected by the people. But certain people are desperate to take away the right of the British people to vote for the European Parliament. And those same people claim to be in favour of democracy! Now there's a surprise.
I kind of agree with you Pete, in that there could be more democracy. But I see more value in a system like the Swiss, where there are more public votes for significant issues, rather than delegating to a few hundred career politicos. BTW, I think the Queen as head of state provides a very long-term and perhaps mature perspective. Elected or not, there is value in that.
In what way are the Commissioners elected and held democratically accountable to the people of Europe ?? You wont find me arguing against more democracy or referendums. What is the relevance of your list anyway, my gardener isn't elected either, or he wouldn't be if I actually had one ?
Certainly the LibDems have gone into reverse but the chances of any one party gaining the magic 40% for an overall majority looks increasingly a thing of the past.
Your (hypothetical) gardener does not have any power, whether practical, executive, legislative, or constitutional, thus is a simple red herring. I listed a few obvious examples of offices or bodies which do have a great deal of real power and are "unelected". They are all appointed, and in some cases (such as the Prime Minister) they are appointed by others who have themselves been directly elected - just exactly as the European Commissioners are, and just exactly as all the Ministers in every government in Europe are. You have given no clue what you imagine is wrong with this arrangement. There are five main candidates to become President of the Commission, who have been campaigning and debating all over Europe in the hope that their party or group of parties will win the election and as a result they will become the President. All over Europe except in the UK, that is - the whole essence of the election seems to have passed so far over the heads of the media here, that virtually nothing has been said about any of the real issues or personalities. Here's a question for you: do you ever describe someone who takes an action you approve of as "unelected"? Or do you reserve the word exclusively for those taking actions you happen to disapprove of?
I offered the opinion that the EU Commission has more power than the EU Parliament and that the Commissioners are unelected ? The first is my, and others, opinion whilst the second is undeniably a fact. What is wrong with the arrangement is a lack of democratic accountability. I believe that the interests of the people of Britain are best served by our own parliament which is elected wholly by the people of Britain. I am more than willing to trade with Europe, and the rest of the world, but I do not wish there to be further political integration as the major beneficiaries are the elites running the EU for the benefit of elites. I agree that the EU election has been very poorly reported by the media here in the UK. The interview of Nigel Farage by Jeremy Paxman was a disgrace with not a single substantive issue about our relationship with Europe being raised.
It is undeniably a fact that our Prime Minister and other ministers, along with all the ministers in all the governments in Europe*, are "unelected", which means they are appointed by those who have been directly elected. You seem to be obsessing about the fact that Commissioners are "unelected" whilst ignoring the corresponding fact that so are all other ministers as well. You seem to be saying that Commissioners being "unelected" is somehow a bad thing (is that what you are saying?). I have pointed out that many powerful positions are "unelected" in all countries, and in the UK more so than in others. Are you saying that is also a bad thing? Is your opinion that being "unelected" is a bad thing as regards Commissioners, but OK for every other post? * The President of France is the exception - he is the only head of government who actually is elected directly.
So are you proposing to take away from me my valuable and cherished democratic right to vote for members of the European Parliament, as I have been doing for decades? And your reason for depriving me (and 60 million others) of my right to vote is what exactly? You pretend to be in favour of democratic accountability, whilst actually you are trying to reduce it drastically. There is a word for people who try to deprive other people of their votes and destroy democratic institutions, but it is not a very pretty one so I prefer not to mention it.
No, I would like to see the people of the UK have a referendum, vote to leave the EU and then strengthen the democratic accountability of the UK Parliament to the people of the UK. There are too many elites looking after the interests of elites, that is not democracy. You must be up to your feet in straw Pete.
Did I start this by saying about an unelected EU? The real decision makers in Government the EU etc are not elected. But I never did like the idea of a United States of Europe, so I'm biased against the EU. When we getting the Euro anyway, or why have we been able to keep the Pound.
