You mean show the whole world how, and who, infiltrates terrorist (and major crime) syndicates so we all have to walk around in loin clothes under 24hr surveillance, that is ALL OF US NOT JUST THOSE CONSIDERED A RISK (oops caps lock, not shouting!) because there are no secrets?
If you feel so strongly about it you could always get involved in politics to engender change instead of shouting on here. In my opinion, the wheels of the world turn, we all get shafted and make do as best we can. It has been this way since the dawn of organised society and it isn't going to change over a parliamentary term or two. It has been so prevalent throughout history that it must just be a feature of the human condition to subjugate, control, define and rule. I just rides my bikes and gets on with it.
of course you could equally apply your argument to your own post.........you dont have to comment or even read it...let alone be on a web site after all you just ride your bikes...
Ok, what is an acceptable level of involvement that the counterterrorist can have? Would you say, unlimited, outside of the Law? Can they, or should they have a free run.
Well, you need to pay attention to what has gone on in the States post 9/11. This is what happens: You declare a War on Terror. Obviously, you can't negotiate with Terror, or get it to sign an armistice or a surrender. So you can't actually win your war. Do you consider it won when you have eradicated the very last jihadist? It also isn't bound by geography, so that means you are just going to have to bomb and kill people wherever they happen to be, in whoever's country they happen to be but without declaring war on it. Then, because you are at war, you can detain people indefinitely without giving them a trial, or access to lawyers or any of that claptrap. They don't have to be proven guilty of a crime and sentenced, you can just suspect them of a crime and keep 'em locked up to be on the safe side. In the interests of "national security" you can torture anyone you can get your hands on. It's all justified to avoid another 9/11 or some dirty bomb or something. You are also allowed to kill anyone you fancy, no matter where they are. If you suspect that they might be terrorist, or could become one, or know a few, just rub them out to make sure. All these things the Americans have done and continue to do. We are their closest allies, so we may well help out. A secret trial is just one rung on this ladder, but it is the same ladder. So you want to keep a careful watch out for the next rung, which will seem oh so reasonable when it is presented to us.
i have to agree. what price freedom "alleged". don't think anyone will be prosecuted behind closed doors for nicking a pint of milk tho.
Open justice is the norm, any degree of secrecy has to be justified case-by-case and rarely is. On the other hand, if a bunch of far-right fascist nutters ever came to power ... but surely that would never happen in the UK ...
Some people who would normally vote Tory, voted UKIP. A bunch of RW nutters. Under normal circumstances the conservatives would have had their vote. Daily Mail readers. Now they're all a bunch of RW butters and they vote tory. So therefore by conclusion, the tories are the party of the rw nutter. Currently they are in power. To be fair to the Lib Dems they're holding them back from a nostalgic trip up the eighties. Thats the only thing to thank the Lib Dems for. Ive digressed..., but depending upon ones outlook or reference point; the RW nutters are already in power. Labour are currently blander than Cliff Richards back catalogue. Milliband makes Kinnock look good. There is an abundance of mediocrity to our current politics that I'd settle for a fascist dictatorship just to see some passion.
It seems the answer is for the trial to proceed largely in camera but with certain segments of the proceedings open, and for the names of the defendants to be published (as they now have been). Such is apparently the judgment of the CACD. Lord Justice Gross said that open justice is both a fundamental principle of the common law and a means of ensuring public confidence in our legal system. Exceptions are rare and must be justified on the facts. Any such exceptions must be necessary and proportionate. No more than the minimum departure from open justice will be countenanced. ... Those exceptions could include withholding information on the basis of national security because that was "a national interest of the first importance". For the [secret intelligence] agencies to operate effectively, at least much of their work is secret and must remain so as a matter of necessity. From time to time, tensions between the principle of open justice and the needs of national security will be inevitable.
One does not partake in public houses. One indulges in his one mild doobie per evening. Thank you. :Wacky::Cigar: However as I said. Its all to do with reference. Maybe I was a bit rash with settling for a fascist dictatorship, but I stand by my claim that there is no 'passion' in politics anymore. The blander, more mediocre your politics; the greater your chance of being voted in. Because we, the public, are scared of change. Yet we all sit on our soap boxes and moan about things not getting better. i.e. changing. I'm just as much a part of the problem as everyone else is. My excuse is that I am botheredly challenged. Once upon a time, we'd be at the demo's too. Poll tax CJB etc. Mainly for the raves to be honest, buy also for solidarity brother. Boy, did that show me a thing or two about people and the police. Us Brits need to be dragged screaming to wherever or whatever it is, that which makes us better. Because generally that also means better behaved. Like children. No, actually more like teenagers. Yep. Brits are teenagers and the politicians are our parents. Currently instead of Pitt and Jolie, we've got Harold and Hilda. Things have got so bad the little brother, Scotland, wants to move out. So that they can get blethered in peace. Thats fine, but certain shop fronts in central London might get annexed and we'll have to send in some Nuns to get rid of them. But where is the visionary? Where is the politician that draws you along? Ive seen more inspiring amoeba's than what we are lumbered with at present. How bad must things be if Farage is seen as a radical? It frightens me too that Boris is in with a shout. Amusing and affable he may be. Even though he is a tory, he is likeable in an odd way. But o m f g ! Prime Minister? I might move back to Scotland or get fucked up in selfridges. As the prophet one said " we're doomed!"
