couldn't agree more, this is what i have been trying to get across. the problem is not England, its Westminster. but as soon as you dare mention independence, the response goes like this. good by and good riddance. makes me mad.
. The idea that Scotland can split from the Union and carry on as before is ridiculous.[/QUOTE] that's the hole idea it cant carry on as before. and nor do the people of scotland want it to.
There's no reason why England, Wales and NI would essentially guarantee Scotland's debts. Why would we want to?
Jerry, I think you need to read up on banking law. Here area few examples. When Nick Leeson bankrupted Barings in Singapore the UK gvt didn't bail it out. When BCCI went bust in London, Pakistan did not bail it out. When RBS went tits up in the USA it was the Federal Reserve that bailed it out. So when RBS in London went bust it was up to the UK to bail it out. If it does the same through trading in London it would still be up to rUK to let it fail or bail it out. It has legal jurisdiction, and the powers of regulation not Edinburgh. Analogy would be me being nicked by police Scotland for doing 160mph on a German autobhan. Which currency is being used is irrelevant.
Derek, my point was directly to your assertion that London can't stand by itself. My point that England bailed out Scottish banks still holds. Moving the argument won't wash.
I read an argument along the lines of - if Scotland unofficially used the pound, in the same way that some eastern european non EU countries use the Euro, a run on Scottish bank could be seen by the markets as a Sterling crisis and effectively force the UK to bail out an independent Scotland. Of course unofficially using the pound would remove from the Scotts the ability to control their own money supply and set interest rates, which would deny them of one of the most basic levers by which to control their economy.
Hands up I'm English and living in West of Scotland forced up here by a company move 20 yrs ago, the people are ok the country's ok not the weather of course but the thing that really pisses me off about all the Yes/No/Maybe voting is that on the NO side we have, bad as it might be a system that is sort of working and on the YES side a lot of undefined wish list rhetoric..............I'm due to retire next April and all I want to know is who's paying my pension and what currency is it to be. At all the public meetings I attended I've asked the same question and all the time the answer is the same, " Don't worry we'll build a better fairer society we will decide our own priorities" Well sorry guys my priority is keeping food in the fridge, the lights on and the heating going, so bad as the current system might be I guess I'll vote for the known rather than the unknown
Any decision wouldn't be implemented until 2016 so you are probably safe to retire next year. And take advantage of the changes in the rules enabling those in defined contribution schemes, which is most people these days, to take their entire pension pot rather than being forced to buy an annuity. You could invest your pot south of the border if you wished.
i didn't like the video that much, i bit to citizen smith for me.. theirs not one argument that cant be turned on its head, especially the banking crises. what if what if.. bollox, what if it had been legislated better, Scotland dissolved parliament seems to be managing it's finances pretty well, maybe we could avoid a banking crises.
I live down here and I didn't vote for who is in office either. They are out of touch with everyone. Its called a democracy. Scotland was fundamental in the creation of the democracy from which we exist. It is partly responsible itself for the Westminster we have today. Theres been plenty of Scottish PM's and MP's and not one has done feck all to address the imbalance of wealth and industry. Take some responsibility and by all means encourage change, but you cannot change it from the outside. Everyone's a bleeding splitter these days instead of a changer. Bunch of crybaby girlies whining and greeting whilst simultaneously burying their heeds. However its a matter of a persons conscience how they vote. I have no problem with people voting Yes. I disagree with it but a person is entitled to their belief no matter how idiotic it is.
I am a million miles from a rant John. I lived in England for 13 years or so. I love the place. My partner is English. She is voting yes. Many English friends here also voting yes. I find the duping of the whole of the British people as to the contribution Scotland makes and the division it causes to be very sad. When do you ever hear the Welsh or the Northern Irish being accused of being scroungers? I find it sad that many English people are taking it personally and thinking we are against them. It's just not true. The issues lie with the system of government, an obsession with banking and the delusion that some how the UK is a success story. It isn't. In terms of division, only a few weeks ago The Times was reporting that the 400,000English people living here could swing a NO vote. Why publish that ? Where is the data to back that up? Or were they playing their Establishment role in trying to instigate a nasty anti English back lash? The opposite case is much more likely. English people in Scotland are overwhelmingly YES voters. People In England should be looking at this and wondering what else is the Establishment doing for their own self interest that is causing harm to the English people. How about the £1.5 billion worth of NHS contracts that have just been awarded? Worth a lo
It's not moving the argument Jerry. Scottish banks operate all over the world. We don't have casino banking in Scotland. Bank of Scotland was considered to be the safest and best bank in Britain, until it was ruined by Halifax. We mostly have regular clearing banks who support business and individuals. The trading all gets done in London. So if that continued post a yes vote it is down to London to regulate and bail out if it chooses. It could of course let them fail, such as Lehmans, BCCI etc. Anyway, if they were Scottish banks how come the tax and profit was being paid to London not Edinburgh ? Or are the only Scottish when they lose money? A bit like Andy Murrays dual nationality. British when he wins, Scots when he loses?
there you go, it's not about dumping the English it's about making a more accountable government. funnily enough an English gentleman dropped in an eight by four yes ticker for my car on friday.
I think this is a good thread and that it is important for the whole of the UK to take an interest in the whys and wherefores. I only ask that people are aware that what the media say is very often not the whole truth, and that they research all the facts before coming to a conclusion. You can also apply the arguments for both sides to different places in the world. Eg Spain Portugal speak broadly the same language, share a currency, one is much bigger than the other, why not become one country? Then you could apply the same for the USA and Canada. How many countries would say, yes, lets do it? Or if as a group of 4 seperate countries we had a vote for union tomorrow, how many people across the whole of the UK would vote for union?
Hopefully, you will find you answers here Mr Burns http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0043/00434502.pdf
Des, I'm really, genuinely pleased that you have such a passionate view of Scottish independence. When I said earlier in this thread that I hope the Scottish people get what they want, I really meant it. Not because I want to see the back of Scotland, but because I think that, as a country, you have expressed a desire to split. If that's what you want, that's great. But if the vote goes the other way and Scotland votes to stay, which I think it will, I hope the Scottish government (not it's people) will stop the English/London/Westminster bashing. It's really tedious and just gives weight to the negative views of Scotland. I appreciate that holding this referendum is seen by many as a positive step towards resolving Scottish issues, but please remember that for as long as I can remember, all Scotland seems to do is moan and most of its bile seems to be pointed at whatever the 'English/Westminster/London' people are perceived to be doing to it. I'd like to see Scotland really start to stand on it's own two feet and address some of its issues - health being one hugely important problem. Suicide another. You don't really need independence to put measures in place to let your people live longer. For the record, my number 1 sons godfather is Scottish, as is mine; a lovely man who is a former president of the Caledonian society. Both left Scotland to come to London. Both retain strong ties to Scotland. Neither can see an independent Scotland being successful.
But its not independence. You want to keep the pound. How can we have independence when we are dependant on the BoE economic policies? Nope. It'll be the Euro. We will not be able to keep the pound regardless of what we wish. The M6 and A7 will need passport control borders too. So at least there will be a couple of jobs going. All the tied links, like the NHS, the army, the police, the civil service etc will all need to be split and thats going to cost both sides. Tremendously. Not one mention of the hows and whats from the Yes campaigners. Oh, it'll be alright. they say. Dont worry, they say. Yeah right. Scotland will sink the whole of the UK to make a stupid point it does not even understand. All this is doing is driving a wedge between us. Deeper and deeper. Do not expect England to make our lives easy or to grant us favours. It will not and it will screw us merrily. There will be a lot of pain and fracture between us, at least in the near future. Westminster will ensure no pound and that it will do everything in its power to scupper Scotland Faslane can be moved. Shipbuilding, what there is of it, will be moved to Barrow etc. No governement in its right mind will award military contracts to another country. Thus the carriers and trident will be off. At least then Scotland may become the land of the twee and tartan land that the folky morons of the SNP wish for.
not that I think the Scottish people will ever vote for independence, but I really don't agree with your statement above. I just don't think there is much appetite for bashing Scotland. TBH, most people I know don't think about Scotland or Scottish issues. Remember, South of Watford, France is closer than Scotland and you can't tell if the people don't like you because they actually speak a different language.
