Our Secretary of State for Education, Michael Gove (a politician for whom the phrase “inept posturing windbag” was surely invented), has by chance stumbled upon the notion that all School Governors must be obliged to uphold “British Values”. Rejecting suggestions that these values include the right to go out on Friday night, neck ten pints, scoff a vindaloo, and throw it up on the bus home, he has taken it upon himself to decide that British Values are: “... democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty, and mutual respect and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs” - ignoring the fact that many other countries would claim the identical values. Interestingly, a spokesperson for the Muslim Council of Britain commented that these new rules would: “... make it very difficult to become a School Governor if conservative Muslim beliefs were deemed to be incompatible with British Values.” Hmmm. He may not have fully thought this through before speaking.
The fact that other countries may have identical values does not mean that they cannot be British values too . I`m sure Gove was not claiming we are the only country with those values. I know many muslims through work, I like some and dislike others, much the same as any other group of people, but most do seem to me to have very different values . Some are better, some are worse but most definitely different and not all are compatible with our own and in some cases these values are considered by many "locals" quite rightly IMO to be shocking and outrageous. I`m sure I dont need to make a list.
Too many politicians think it through too much before speaking. So what do you think British values are Pete ? Are conservative Muslim views compatible with British Values ?
Shhh - don't broadcast it , but I've heard that there are free holidays available from your local mosque if you know the right Iman to speak to. Admittedly, it's probably a bit hot in Syria at the moment, and apparently you aren't guaranteed a return ticket
Hmmm, "British" values? All dependent upon your geographical location, social situation, religious lunacy, political persuasion and sexual preference. I like shaven pussy, not from a strong accent area, without a radical political or religious up upbringing and not on benefits. I could choose a titled lady to run my tongue along, though I may be of the wrong social situation for said v posh totty.
Think you got it in the first few sentences Pete.......just a wind bag letting the wind go. Now if an Ozzie politician had said something like that there probably would have been a more definitive description with the " and if you don't like it live some where else"
are you suggesting that right wing Muslims don't beleave in democracy, liberty, mutual respect and tolerance of other beliefs. and should the spokesperson for the Muslim society want that as a school governor.
Muslim spokesmen are usually careful to avoid stating that islam is fundamentally and explicitly inimical to democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty, and mutual respect and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs. Their usual practice is to be vague and evasive, or simply to lie (unless they are in a mosque, and not speaking English). On this occasion the mask slipped, and the Muslim Council has opposed the introduction of these 'British values' (which are not especially British but simply civilised values) on the grounds that muslims could not be school governors if those values were a requirement. They would prefer school governors who do not support democracy and the rule of law, oppose individual liberty, and lack mutual respect and tolerance of those with other faiths and beliefs. An amazing U-turn by Michael Gove though. This could hardly be more diametrically opposed to his previous stance which favoured giving religiously-based schools total free rein.
Those few Muslims that I have engaged in discussions along these lines, without exception all educated people, have always express fairly tolerant moderate views but the underlying message is that fundamental beliefs are not to be questioned and they will never criticise fellow Muslims. Although that does bring to mind the Christian with a geology degree that believed the world was made in 7 days. Pete, you have made it quite clear previously that you have no time for those with religious beliefs so how would you tackle this problem ?
People have a right to believe in religions if they so choose, just like they have a right to believe in astrology, homeopathy, or fairies. Religions, and those who believe in them, have a right to argue for their point of view and their interests, just like any other voluntary society, association, union, or club. Individuals have a right to some degree of respect, depending on their words and actions. Religious faith itself, being based on no evidence or rationality, deserves no respect whatever. What the religious do not have is any right to impose their beliefs forcibly upon others, to refuse former members the right to leave their club, to demand special privileges beyond the human rights we all have, or to threaten illegal violence. As far as schools are concerned, Local Education Authorities have a strict legal obligation to provide every child in their area with free compulsory education. LEAs meet this obligation by operating schools, and are responsible to voters at elections for the way they do it. Michael Gove's policies (of banning LEAs from supervising schools, and instead handing public money over to religious groups to indoctrinate children in schools they are allowed to control unsupervised) are in my view irresponsible and foolish. If he is now reversing those damaging policies, that can only be a good thing.
I do think that the British sense of fair play and tolerance, whilst it is a strength when everyone has similar values, is too often seen as a weakness to be exploited by those who have very different values. Having said that there has to be the opportunity to change and evolve those values through the political process to meet new challenges. When there is mass immigration from parts of the world with very different cultures and values the risk is that the pace of change is too fast and in the wrong direction for a sizable proportion of the population and that is when problems can occur. Now even the Labour Party admit they got it wrong, although whether they really believe that or have been forced into admitting it I am not sure. Regarding religion in schools the solution is simple, take all religion out of schools and stop state funding of faith schools.
The idea behind Free Schools was to remove political control from education and allow parents the right to run schools how they saw fit, but they were still subject to inspection by OFSTED. The flaw is that it is impossible to separate politics from life.
That isn't a solution, that's the objective. The problem is how to get there from here, and it isn't simple. Several successive steps of policy changes, legislative changes, administrative changes, and financial changes would have to be implemented, which would take several years and much determination. A good start might be getting rid of Michael Gove, the worst Secretary of State for Education in decades (against stiff competition!).
It would not be possible to abolish the private sector legally, because it is an ECHR right. But children attending private schools, and the general public, should be better protected against various egregious abuses. Here are four to start with: First, the pupils should not get less than the 190 days teaching per year which state school pupils get. Second, private schools should have to teach the national curriculum - no suppressing science to teach creationism. Third, they should not be treated as "charities" - private schools are commercial enterprises, and should pay taxes on their income and supplies. Fourth, they should be just as liable to be inspected by OFSTED as state schools.
'Remove political control' actually means 'remove democratic control'. This is another manifestation of the common but half-baked idea of taking the politics out of politics. "Allow parents the right to run schools how they saw fit" - the flaw is that parents can be selfish, bigots, criminals, ignoramuses, or religious fanatics. They answer to nobody. "Free Schools" are a disaster in the making, obviously, since it gives the loons a free hand to mess up the schools for a few years then move on - leaving the LEA (which bears the actual responsibility) with the resulting chaos.
"Regarding religion in schools the solution is simple, take all religion out of schools and stop state funding of faith schools." Agree totally and i'd say that was the solution actually. Also, stop dicking around pandering to faith groups in case we offend them. I don't just mean our middle eastern fanatics either. Replace the vacated period in the school day with science might be a good move.
