Well it looks like Juncker is going to be the next President of The European Commission, a man who has said he wants a common EU citizenship with reciprocal voting rights in national elections; a pan-European minimum wage; a unified EU diplomatic corps; a federal police agency; and EU-wide taxation. Angela Merkel has said that ever-closer union must apply to all 28 member states, that 'reform' in her mind applied to economic liberalisation, not to any repatriation of powers, and that the Commission President would be nominated by European political parties and not via the Council Of Ministers. The Federalist Agenda has just been underlined in red ink. So much for a renegotiation prior to an In/Out referendum.
And 69 years later they achieve what the jumped up Austrian corporal could not. I make a glib point however I do worry about this. I do believe that we have more in common with our west European neighbours than the septics, and I cannot see that ever closer economic ties with Greece Bulgaria Romania even Spain or Italy is actually a good thing. Just how are they going to have a pan euro minimum wage? Do we cut ours or increase (artificially ) the old eastern block? Do these people actually have a fuckin clue???
At least a Europe wide minimum wage will please the guys who don't want immigrants in the UK. Would you want to earn minimum here with our cost of living or in Spain/Eastern Europe? We are going to have filthy offices though, no bar staff or waiters in London, etc, etc...... Seriously though, if it is Europe wide it would have to be indexed to cost of living somehow. That's going to be pretty complicated so I doubt it will ever happen. All those thousands of Brits/Germans/Dutch living in Spain are going to drive some changes if they get the vote as well!
DC now knows what it's like to represent Britain in the Eurovision Song Contest. Juncker was one of the architects of the Euro, what a winner. Time for us to bail out of a failing project. Lost jobs, lost trade? The EU needs us to export to, even more than we need the EU. Lost jobs like the closure of the last two Ford plants in the UK with a loss of 1400 jobs, the move helped by an EU subsidised loan.....really helpful!
What is never gonna happen ? The creation of a Federal European Superstate or leaving the EU. There doesn't appear to be much on offer in between.
Either, there is no way all of Europe will agree to the formation of a 'super state' and we will not be leaving the EU any time soon as its too much effort for no reward.
Sounds like you need to look a little bit more closely at the news Attila. It is a stated objective and all of Europe doesn't have to agree for it to happen. Even the Labour party have said no more transfer of power to the EU without a referendum. Dave has just been given a good slap and he is not happy, he can no longer maintain the pretence of realistic reform based upon repatriation of powers. The EU have said they are not interested in reform other than along a federalist agenda.
Is anyone surprised?............That's been on the cards since the EU was formed....... .....'Lebensraum' (Google it) ...........and it seems some of us on here are all for it................F-Nose why.......
together we are greater than the sum of our parts. allows us to punch above our weight provides security and economic advantages. worked for 300 sorry 50 years.
David Cameron must presumably have some hidden reasons for exposing himself to such a comprehensive humiliation today, but at this stage it is not easy to discern what they might be. At the time the various candidates were being picked, several months ago, he could have influenced the centre-right to adopt some candidate other than Juncker - but he did nothing. During the election campaign, he could have campaigned for one of the four other candidates - but he did not. Even after the election results were in and the centre-right had won, he could have tried to persuade the other 27 states to support an alternative candidate - but he chose never to say whom he wanted, so that was a non-starter. Today he could have gone along with the overwhelming consensus in the both the Council and the Parliament - but he chose the path of isolation. He could have welcomed the enhanced democratic accountability which comes from the new linking of Commission appointments to Parliamentary elections - but he chose to stand out, alone, against democracy. Cameron's course of action, at every stage, superficially looks like hopeless incompetence. But I don't quite believe that - he's a clever chap, and may well have some concealed, secondary reason for his actions which will only become apparent at a later date. We'll see.
Could it be a short term ploy to have an external enemy to visibly fight against in the run up to the general election? Similar to Thatcher and Jaques Delores? Red Ed can't be trusted over Europe, vote for me. It would be like Blair using Devolution to defuse the ScotNats in the short term despite the fact it increased the likelihood of independence in the longer term. It also fails to take the threat from UKIP seriously, who must be delighted with the gift of Juncker.
I think Cameron's ploy is obvious. Either go along with the rest of Europe and get slammed for it at home thus losing him the next general election as key seats are pinched by UKIP, or take this stance and hope to be seen at home as someone who will stand up for UK. We are now beginning to see the real power which UKIP yields. They can't win a general election but they can dictate the behaviour of other parties who are running scared. That's democracy at work. At least Cameron can hold his head up and say he stuck to his principles. I suspect a few other european leaders may have problems back at home due to their support of this very obvious federalist. We shouldn't be surprised though at his election. Whilst the roots of the EU lie in trade agreements and control of steel and coal, the sole purpose of its formation was to prevent another European war. What better way to achieve that goal than to have a united Europe. I think Cameron will get re-elected, just, then will attempt to renogatiate with no luck, a referendum will be held and we will decide to pull out. It's not what I want but I can see it happening. I think Cameron is as euroscrptic as the majority of his party but that's not election friendly so is playing the middle ground to sway things slowly to the right. He's one of us and we're all in it together.
You may well be right. Cameron may be trying to position himself as Winston Churchill - backs to the wall, Dunkirk spirit, blood sweat & tears, etc. - which can only be done following a catastrophic defeat (or the appearance of one). The trouble is, his own party may see him as more like Neville Chamberlain.
