Hi all, I see there are a few threads regarding the subject but no specific recommendations. I'm looking to dyno tune my 999. At the moment I have a Power commander for it thus I dont mind that that's tuned rather than a reflash of the ECU. I'm on a budget, but would like a quality job (i know this is tough). Bottom line, I live in Reading, where would you suggest having it done that's not too far? I've asked the following for a quote so far: Moto Rapido - £550 + VAT (HOLY COW!!!!) (they said same price for re-flash or power commander tune) HM Racing - £165 + VAT (quite a bit more reasonable) they said this includes custom maps for each cylinder if required Tim Blakemore racing - £150 single map for both cylinders or £250 for a custom map for each cylinder. Any suggestions or other places i should look? any feedback on any of the above? Thanks
That's the price I was expecting... not sure where £550 + VAT came from.... interestingly is that each of these tells me a different story... TIM Blakemore's mentioned that for the 999 they'd suggest definitely getting the custom map for each cylinder solution, as it works great on these bikes. They also said they only do map power commanders and they dont recommend mapping the ECU as this can cause issues and corrupt ECU's. HM Said that they will map both cylinders individually if it's needed but most likely it's not. While Rapido said that they recommend the ECU flashed rather than a power commander, and they're the most expensive of the bunch... I think I'd rather just have the Power commander mapped since I already have it... any other places I should look into? Anyone had their's done at any of the above or others?
Luigi Moto in Bristol quote £425... I'm curious if I'm missing something with Luigi moto and Moto Rapido vs HM and Tim's?? why are those two to three times as much as the other two? anything they offer that the other's dont? Also Luigi's only does ECU reflashes, they dont do PC maps.
I can't speak for Moto Rapido but I know that Chris at CJS (he's based at Louigi Moto) remaps ECU's. I've seen him do it. He spends hours getting it just right. I've also had dyno work done by Tim Blakemore on a race bike and my Monster S2R and was happy with the results. It certainly took less time to do the PC maps than the ECU remap. If you go down the PC route then I would recommend mapping each cylinder individually. The advantage of a PC is that when you come to sell the bike you can take your fancy exhaust off, remove it the PC and you are back to stock. You would have to get the ECU reflashed back to stock with the other method and I have no idea of how easy or the cost involved.
So I just got my 848 evo done at Moto Rapido for £250+Vat and they loaded their '848 challenge' map on it because they say that the 848 engines are pretty consistent so that last gains wouldn't be as noticeable. 2 points to note!! They DID say that ultimately a dyno setup per cylinder would be best, but that they were confident their map was pretty close and saved me £200. Secondly I can't speak for the ease of programming a 999 ECU, I know it took 20 mins just to download my stock ECU Map before he changed it.
If it aint individual maps per cylinder it aint worth shit. MR's price I would suspect would include fitting a PC, best to confirm.
I disagree, the difference is unbelievable. I'm sure it would be better with a dyno tune but disabling the O2 sensors to stop it leaning out was a massive part of that! Sorry, but it's honestly made a huge difference and for road riding or anything less than fast group trackdays I can't see needing more. Ps my map is still mapped per cylinder, as it's a map they developed for the challenge, just not to my engine. If they have one for the 999 maybe a good option for you?
From what you've said it sounds like it's a map that was tuned one 1 bike and put on yours... like the free maps on DynoJet's website. Those are ok, but not mapped exactly to your bike and will still not run perfectly. You're right that you will not be able to take all the benefits of a proper each cylinder map on the road, however you will feel the difference unless you're a 70 year old man with bad arthritis and cannot feel anything in your hands anymore
You pays your money, you takes yer chances. Recommendation: map the ECU directly - take control of all the different engine parameters and optimise them. Some time ago, I once had a Bazzaz (in reality it's the same as a PC), and the bike was mapped by a well known independent who had their own dyno room (and even raced a 748 in a series). They didn't bother mapping each cylinder. The results were slightly noticeable in normal riding, but nothing special. Possibly more placebo than anything else. But then later I had the ECU directly mapped, per cylinder, by MotoRapido. It was expensive, but worth it. Performance after 7+ hours on the dyno was NOTICEABLE. Every gear, every rpm, the engine was a different animal. YMMV.
Look I was really careful to not say there wouldn't be a difference! The reason I posted was because in the first thread u said your on a budget! All I am saying is that I have found a big improvement for 50% of the price u have been quoted so I was just trying to add some perspective too it. I'm not getting mardy but I wouldn't have even bothered posting (because I knew I would get shot down) if you hadn't said 'I'm on a budget'...
Thanks phill. I have been looking for a custom solution though as I have multiple free maps and have been toying with those, and you're right they do improve the performance a bit but not taking full advantage of the system i have. Preferably I'd like a suggestion of someone that has done their tune at one decently priced place around £200 figure.
Salmore, I did the same with my 748 with a pc3 off ebay, pc free rough map for 'open' exhausts (2 bhp increase) then had it custom mapped for £200 (8bhp increase). After some time, slight concerns with a peaky motor and a degree of failed expectation I had Chris at Louigi Moto take off the pc3 and reflash an ecu, it took a full day and cost £425 (10 bhp increase, 15% more torque and smoother running). I still have the oem ecu if I ever sell the bike and want to restore it all to oem spec. The engine now sticks out as much power and torque as a standard 748r and the engine pulls from way down the rev range making the bike quicker and easier to drive in town. Wish I had not bothered with the pc3, only good part is I sold it on ebay for nearly as much as I paid for it but still wasted £200 on the pc3 custom map. I think you get what you pay for.
Thanks Denzil, good point... I'm curious though... what is the difference between reflashing the ECU vs mapping the PCIII, that would make it so? I appreciate that someone just didn't map the PCIII well thus the results were not that great... but how would a properly mapped PCIII differ from properly mapped ECU?
PC3 cant change AFR below 5k. Their are other parameters that a ECU direct map can also manage better than a PC3
Agreed. Chris at louigimoto is the master. Definitely the best is to reflash the ECU. More control is gained from that... I started a thread in the hypermotard area of how mine went.... An ecu reflash is a night and day change.... If you go to Chris he will map each barrel separately yielding better results.
If not changing anything else, and intend t o keep bike for a while, full custom map. If changing stuff like cans, cat, filters etc, over time then PC as its half the cost to map than the full map as you've already got a PC and most places can do it
Thanks all, I'll probably go down the Chris route at Luigi's... to be honest Moto Rapido is closer but I have not really liked the way they've corresponded with me via email... I've asked them the question I've asked above, why they're 3 times more expensive than other places... even more expensive than luigi moto... and they've said they're not able to tell me that, while you guys answered that in 1 sentence. I'll see if I can sell the PCIII first to make up some money for the full map
I was super impressed with CJS from an email perspective and agree that really counts, for me he was a bit too far to go and then be hanging around all day. I agree that Moto Rapido are not good from an email perspective but seemed better on the phone and in person. Go with Chris but would be good if u can let us know how u get on? I have read stuff about him getting 8hp out of an 848 with just slip ons; MR said mine has probably got more like 4hp because it isn't specific to my actual bike. Ps strangely my bike seems to barely vibrate when pulling away now, it used to shudder a bit but it's so much smoother I
From what I have gathered from this forum, CJS is THE place to go. Its miles from me too but thats where i am taking mine. There is a BnB nearby and a pub/cafe. I'd be inclined to book a room as its a lengthy process.
