Calais And Immigration

In every other country, there is some kind of identity system in place, so that every person in the country has an established identity; thus their passport, ID card, driving licence, tax benefit & health status, voter registration, and residency are linked together. Numbers are easy to determine, and Schengen open internal borders are not a problem.

In the UK, identity is in a chaotic mess, with false, ghost and duplicate identities of every kind rife and no way of reconciling them. You're right in saying that nobody knows how many illegal immigrants there are, but that's because nobody knows how many legitimate immigrants, British citizens, EU citizens, or casual tourists there are in the UK either. This is one of several reasons why the UK is a magnet. Strict border controls is a 19th century solution.

 

Really? Well you have given a remarkably convincing impression of being under a mistaken impression. So what is it exactly that you don't understand about the concept of open borders between countries, or counties?

 

I certainly have not. What exactly is it you imagine I have agreed with, then?

 

Correct, drive down the E15 and the only clue you have left France and entered Spain is the blue sign with the ring of stars and 'espania' on it.

 

I think your quote above is a little simplistic although I agree that our system is by no means perfect. There are illegal immigrants in other EU countries, some of whom try to get here, after all that is what started this post. I imagine strict border control to be better than lax border control at deterring & preventing access whatever the country .Travelling between states in mainland Europe is easy for both those who should be there and those who should not so while Schengen is great for legitimate residents it is quite possibly worse than our system at deterring illegal immigrants. I`m sure nobody knows how many illegal immigrants are in Germany, Spain or Belgium for example so maybe 19th century is better than or just as good as 21st century in this case .

 

Sure, illegal immigrants can remain invisible - until they want to buy or rent a home, get a driving licence, claim benefits, get a job, open a bank account ... Then they need an identity and a status. Or until they do something illegal and get arrested by the police. That's where the control is based, not at an internal border.

 

Absolutely, people forget that illegal immigrants can't claim benefits, asylum seekers can but illegal immigrants can't.

 

I'm led to believe that the reason immigrants want to come to the UK is due to the ease with which they can find cash-paying jobs with no tax or nic or even a need to register anywhere. As Pete says the way you are registered for different types of ID in the UK is a total shambles. One single system that registers your passport, driving licence, NIC number, NHS number would be much more foolproof. Even the UK tax system finds it very difficult to cross register the same individual across all the departments.

Despite what the likes of UKIP would have you believe the UK benefit system is not that much different to the rest of Europe and nor is it anymore generous.

BBC News - Q&A: What benefits can EU migrants get?

 

I don't think benefits are the main attraction for illegal immigrants, its the fact that once in they know there is almost no chance of ever being removed. Cross the line and you're home and dry for ever. Until that situation ends no amount of tinkering with this or that entitlement will make the slightest difference.

 

This is the only obvious answer IMO

 

Everyone that is allowed to be here should have an I D card.
It was going to happen not sure why it didn't

 

In 2008-2010 a scheme was set up designed to sort out this chaotic UK identity problem (see: Identity Cards Act 2006). It was just starting to be implemented when the new coalition government came in, in May 2010. Idiotically they scrapped the scheme entirely, wasting all the work which had been done up to then and putting us back to square one. Undoubtedly it will all have to be done again sometime.

In the meantime, a system has been introduced recently whereby everyone who has both a passport and a driving licence has to use the same photograph for both; this is one small step. Anyone who applies for a passport in the identity of a person whose death has been registered finds that the Passport Office now refuses to issue it; this is another small step. Every person registering to vote on the Electoral Register will have to sign individually, instead of one person signing for the whole household; this is a third small step. Looks like it will take many more steps, and many years, to resolve these problems.

 

I started watching that gypsy fixer prog the other night. Which was about organised marriages of often 14yr old girls to 20+ yr old lads. I lasted 5 mins. Eastern Euro gypos, living in a 4 bed council house, old fella on disability and his two lads 'do gardens' to support their 5 (each) children.

I did think it may have just been a UKIP/Tory commissioned prog...

 

Just don't watch them, bradders. Those programmes are designed for you to get angry about and forget the real issues that could make life here a better place to be for those whose hard work actually pays for it all.

We don't see many programmes about how the big multi-national companies avoid/evade? paying tax in the country where they earn their money. Or how all those 'celebs' have been caught out trying to avoid paying their fair share of tax.

There are lots of easy fixes for the mess the world is in but politicians don't take them because they might upset the goose that lays their golden eggs.

 

The sad fact is this country and Europe as a whole has falling birth rates in terms of the local populations. The only way governments can continue to feed the debt the nations are in is to bring in cheap labour.

Every time we vote for any of these feckers its another nail in our own coffins. None of them as far as i can see are interested in improving the society in which we live.

 

For hundreds of years countries looked in vain for ways to stop the English invasion.. Being from NZ myself (albeit of english blood) i see first hand to some degree what they have done in their bid to conquer the world... Its only for the fact the Maori were a trading race and a clever people ( very good fighters) that the wars ended and the English did not defeat them, so to this day peace exists. Those countries a lot closer and with more wealth/resources to offer did not enjoy the same fate.. Beatings, killings, raping, blinding and slavery were common place (in the name of king and country) ... The sins of the father are being revisited upon the son and i don't think anyone of you can change it... Is it right?
NO...but its mankind at its finest get used to it....

 

I work alongside the UK Border Force a fair bit, and work in France full time. The problem with immigration is huge. Peoplecwill go to unbelievable lengths to reach the UK. Once here they can claim asylum, which has to be processed. In the mean time they work cash in hand and claim what they can off HMG. These people are often as not transported by organised gangs. They have travel organised and pay as they go, getting the next phone number from each gang as they pass through. If asylum is refused then they will simply dissappear. Eastern Europeans work for cash, then take it back home with them. It's not unusual for asylum seekers, once they have a UK passport, to travel back to the country they fled from! The Mayor of Calais is quite rightly sick of her town being flooded by people trying to reach the UK. Crime is rife, it's not a nice place to go. As for monitoring borders between European countries, that is impossible. For various reasons, it is vital we keep control on who enters the UK. That is why every person has their passport scanned on entry.

 

How do you suggest the French secure the vast border they have? We have enough trouble with our border and we're an Island!