My God! It's like dealing with the NSA! I'll bet some of the clues are on Wikileaks. It's all a bit cloak and dagger. Why don't they just say, "yes, you have a prototype, but it's not meant to run on the road or outside a Ducati controlled environment. In fact, it's not meant to run at all". I don't get it. Why make life complicated when it could be simple.
to get all of that frame number might be worth trying to track down an enthusiastic professor or phd student studying laser or xray imaging or other forensic imaging techniques. any large university would likely have these
My e-mail that they did, then didn't want, then maybe did... also attached a PDF of the original posting Power Point which has since been amended with the photo analysis of the VIN and a few additional discoveries. She also asked me to send a copy of my previous e-mails already sent to her for some reason... Today at 12:59 PM Hi Theresa, Firstly thanks for your assistance so far, even though there is some reluctance from Ducati to respond to this situation. I realise Ducati may not wish to admit a pre homologation hand build prototype has left the factory: but in this instance the evidence is somewhat overwhelming. I really wish for the confirmation from Ducati and I do have other evidence yet to be disclosed, so would hope for an answer. Regarding it being Pre homologation I'm sure there is a duty of care statement required concerning H&S and legalities of use? Perhaps Ducati may even want the bike back? Please note: I do have an e-mail from Ducati previously stating you do not know why the bike was released. The VIN and some of my information is attached on a PDF I have created - the VIN appears to be ZDM01 (5 Digits) or ZDM010 (6 Digits) from the photo analysis undertaken to read through the additional layer of paint. If for some reason Ducati will not confirm I would like written confirmation as to the reasons why. Thank you for you continue support in the matter. Regards, Stu
Just received a further call just to confirm they received my e-mail and it has been passed on to there expert, whoever he/she may be. I rather think it might be going elsewhere... I might be on the boards agenda at Ducati perhaps :Wideyed: Still don't hold much hope of a positive response though, but you never know :Bag:
I hope you get to the bottom of this. Do you have any evidence that this bike was able to be released/ sold on? I'd hate for it to turn out that as part of the contract for the bikes production the original owners weren't allowed to pass the bike on to anyone else and that it had to be passed back to ducati if the owners no longer required it.
I I have evidence that Ducati believed the 5 bikes made for the promo work were 11 digit VIN Pre Production Prototypes - they just made a mistake with this one I guess, I also have a copy invoice from Ducati Corse selling 2 of the other 4 (11 digit VIN bikes) to a London Ducati Dealer in 2007 for £15,000 each. The Ducati Director I have an e-mail from, saying he doesn't know why they released these bikes, confirmed the fact the 5 bikes were Pre Production to Bonham's. I also have a copy of this mail.
Hopefully you have been passed on to Livio Lodi at the Ducati museum, as he will know about them and will know the right people to ask if not. If you haven't been passed on to him, drop me a PM and I will forward you his email address and I'm sure he'll be interested in everything you've done so far!
So where exactly does your bike fit in? Is it a promo one, or one that was sold to the London dealer. The point I'm trying to make is that if it's a promo one hopefully there's nothing written down saying that they can't be past on once they're finished with.
My understanding is that mine is possibly the first of the 5 original hand built prototypes after the 998 mules and prior to the pre production prototypes. I don't believe Ducati realised when they put the 5 bikes for modification by Ducati Corse in 2007. The two sold to the Ducati dealer were 11 digit VIN versions, all 5 of which were believed by Ducati to be Pre Production (off tool) Prototypes.
Exige, Ducati have no duty of care to you, and if its one thing that probably would piss them off its the inference that they have. You are at the end of the day dealing with a frame full of components out of the parts bin, but I don't need to tell you that. 1) they're prototypes - never meant for release, not warranted or guaranteed in any way. 2) The condition of sale is the important bit - try and find out from the london dealer and the original purchasers what the condition of sale was. For all you know they might well have sold them for run up / display or exhibition purpose only, and if this were the case, the fact that one is now a runner would justifiably make them livid. 3) Bonhams documents merely confirm their provenance that is all - they were just helping the auctioneer validate the item, but it in no way confirms any responsibility other than "yes its kosher". Bottom line is that yes you have something pretty special, and its probably enough to accept that Ducati admit it exists. Judging by the email, either someone really doesn't like you or more than likely its a situation where they were sold on a basis which is no more the case. For all you know the sandisk guy might have bought it on the understanding that it was never to be put on the road or used - it might have been so abused that even the test rider wouldn't go round the block to get a coffee on it (unlikely) -thats what you need to find out. I would probably bet that someone inside the business is getting their nuts chewed over this, but at the same time that's what happens when you release stuff like this into the wild, someone always finds a way of getting it running. Its a bit different from rebuilding last years motoGP sedici and selling it on for a pant wetting amount. As I said in the last post, its someone at the coal face you need to get talking to and by the sounds of it you owe Antonye for coming up trumps. Personally from my own experience of prototyping and development in the past, find out it's purpose, and conditions under which it was let go - and you'll peice the rest of the jigsaw together pretty quickly. And their resistance will be answered at the same time. I've seen it happen before with people buying ex racecars at an auction and then showing up at the doorstep wanting support or wanting to stick it on the road. Luckily I've never seen a mule show up but never say never!
Thanks for the info - he is the Director of the Ducati Museum and was the person who released the info to Bonham's. He is also the person who, last year, didn't want to discuss it further with me and said he didn't know why they released these bikes.
Exige, Great thread, but i would back off the duty of care and h/s a bit as it sounds like they are getting backed into a corner and the draw bridge is starting to go up :Nailbiting:
I don't disagree but it already went up last year - so rightly or wrongly I'm just trying a different approach :Bag: and I'm only asking the question...
I think I might have been a bit more up front with them from the off, rather than slowly divulging your hand. It looks a bit pokerish and might not inspire them to cooperate much. Why not just say "I think I've bought one of your early 999 prototypes, can you confirm this for me please?"
Why not ask them the direct stuff up front a d be clear of what you think you have, rather than play cryptic games? And dont get the H&S thing, whats the score there? Why should they tell you anything?
