In case anybody doesn't know, these are the rights which are protected by the European Convention on Human Rights: 1. Right to life 2. Freedom from torture and inhuman or degrading treatment 3. Right to liberty and security 4. Freedom from slavery and forced labour 5. Right to a fair trial 6. No punishment without law 7. Respect for your private and family life, home and correspondence 8. Freedom of thought, belief and religion 9. Freedom of expression 10. Freedom of assembly and association 11. Right to marry and start a family 12. Protection from discrimination in respect of these rights and freedoms 13. Right to peaceful enjoyment of your property 14. Right to education 15. Right to participate in free elections Is there really anybody - anyone at all - who is willing to give up those rights or have them taken away?
I doubt the Tories on here from the Daily Mail Appreciation Society will pop in and enter into a debate with you on the matter Pete. What worries me more is that they portray the ECHR as some kind of EU meddling and are brainwashing the electorate as such. The Tory mouth pieces, ie The Fail and its other assorted hatezines are full of it. Its the 'Great British Sausage' all over again. As the years go by the tories come more and more to resemble the parodies of Yes Minister/Yes Prime Minister. I'd laugh if it wasnt such a serious matter.
I was waiting for you to post this Pete , and I am glad you did, esp as it came about as a direct consequence of WW2. This is what our country fought for, so that we and other nations could live in relative peace whilst protecting the rights of the citizens of Europe to the above. Now it is painted as left wing libertarians ruining our country. I find it disgraceful that they are selling it as a consequence of being in the EU (which it isn't) and as the reason that we are invaded by money grabbing foreigners and we cant do anything about it. What I suspect they are selling it as, is that we as citizens of this country are entitled to the above, however no 'bloody foreigners' are allowed to use the ECHR as a defence to seeking asylum, work etc in this country. And that is how it will be sold in our wonderful reactionary right wing press.
I'm always dubious of any politician that claims to want to "reclaim powers from Europe" as my first thought is always that it will not be to improve our protection and rights.
My only thought is that possibly a caveat which says 'Only if you were born in the UK' could end up being added.....
I can just see it now. So someone who leaves their home in say Iraq or Afghanistan due to the instability brought within the country by the western powers, and because they belong to a minority that is terrorised say because of their sexuality or religious beliefs, then travels for thousands of miles to the UK with the bare essentials that they managed to gather. A promise of religious freedom sexual tolerance and a greater sense of freedom as witnessed by them and told to them through the 'liberators' of the their own country (the western Powers) or viewed via technology, is, due to the fact that they were not born here ineligible to lay claim to these rights? Yep that is just about how it will be, either that or the Tories know that it will never get passed but are playing the political game by offering to look at it to stop the right wingers defecting to UKIP. I could hang my head in shame.
Since the ECHR was a British idea in the first place, and given that it has taken over 60 years of effort to get every European country to sign up to it (all 47 of them - only Belarus refuses), it would be a supreme irony if it was Britain of all countries that undermined it now. Given that of the UK cases going to the European Court of Human Rights the UK government succeeds in 98% of them, it is telling that the present government cannot bear being told they have got it wrong in 2% of cases. "If you won't let me win every match, I'm going home - and I'm taking the ball with me". It has taken the Conservative Party several years and much effort trying to shake off the "nasty party" tag. With a general election due next Spring it seems an odd time to portray themselves so openly as the nasty party again. Especially with recent former cabinet ministers like Kenneth Clarke and Dominic Grieve lining up to say how misconceived this move is. Those people who were saying there was no difference between the main parties can't say it now. This is a yawning gap.
If 47 states has the same policy that they have all signed up for why do so many Asylum seekers head for the UK? Would be good to find this out because many of them travel through several countries that have signed the treaty to get here.
by the European Convention on Human Rights: 1. Right to life...unless you purposley take someone else 2. Freedom from torture and inhuman or degrading treatment...unless you are a suspected terrorist or anti-govt sympathiser 3. Right to liberty and security...see caveat 2 4. Freedom from slavery and forced labour...see caveat 2 5. Right to a fair trial...see caveat 2 6. No punishment without law...see caveat 2 7. Respect for your private and family life, home and correspondence...see caveat 2 8. Freedom of thought, belief and religion...see caeat 2: plus if its not Christan or jewish your rights are revoked 9. Freedom of expression...see caveat 2 10. Freedom of assembly and association...guess what... 11. Right to marry and start a family....but only one spouse at a time 12. Protection from discrimination in respect of these rights and freedoms....erm, and again... 13. Right to peaceful enjoyment of your property...oh dear... 14. Right to education...unless its preaching something the givt dont want you to know 15. Right to participate in free elections...as lomg as you only vote for the establishment Is there really anybody - anyone at all - who is willing to give up those rights or have them taken away? Edited to allow for the new laws being developed and having been developed by succesive govt
1. means death sentence 2. means torture is ok if someone SUSPECTS you??? 3 - 15. Guess what? Caveat 2 Suspicion is all that is required for a gov sponsored agency to pull your teeth. Jeez
it doesn't say, if the land of your birth doesn't provide this the the default alternative is the UK. If other countries flout these rules why should we take their countrymen. Im not a xenophobic racist, just a realist.
Not strictly true, I didn't vote for these muppets nor did a clear majority. I do recall however every one else in my office voting for this shower, their faith lasted until the home secretary implemented the windsor review.
No we dont because i never voted for them. That other people see our country as fair and free and wish to come here makes me proud. Yet people who deny these oppressed people the opportunity to free themselves because of their own selfish ignorance makes me feel ashamed. I'm all right Jack. Realism is just another word for ill informed reactionist.
Out of the 6,000 million people in the world, several millions are asylum seekers at any given time. Almost all of those flee to the nearest country, e.g. currently Syrians fleeing to Turkey and Jordan in their hundreds of thousands. Most of the world's asylum seekers never come anywhere near Europe at all. Of those who do travel to Europe, the great majority end up in France, Italy, Spain, Germany, etc. especially those who speak the relevant language (e.g. French-speakers to France). Most European countries have a higher proportion of immigrants, compared to their populations, than the UK does, and more asylum-seekers arriving. So your question ("... why do so many asylum seekers head for the UK?") makes no sense at all. You might more sensibly ask why do so few head for the UK.
You seems to be saying that the ECHR is not strong enough, is too often violated, has too many exceptions, or is not sufficiently well enforced already. Is that what you're saying, bradders? If so, you would presumably be opposed to it being abolished ...
Or..given the challenges and threats they have to overcome, why do so many seekers belive it worth the danger, effort, risk, cost to make th journey to the UK?
Coz its safe. Coz we dont torture people (XFactor viewing is an exception). Neither do we imprison without justification. Nor do we deny freedom of speech. Or indeed freedom of religion. The list goes on. What you take for granted, a sizable population of the world does not have.
@Pete1950 Indeed, someone looking at twisting an argument for their own end may say that. However, the rest would say I was clearly stating the govt are eroding the rights with new laws, of which Labour were by far the worst exponents, under the guise of terror threats
