Hi Everyone, I just took delivery of my newish carbon red diavel - it sodding amazing - haven't been on 2 wheels for some time, last bike was a 916 bip. Am really sorry to bring up a now possibly boring subject but - the lid I purchased, (a good 10yrs ago) when I had the 916, has literally been sitting, as new, in its box, out of sunlight, dry etc etc - its unmarked, and really hardly used - now I also know that many manufacturers say you must change your lid every 5 years, which makes sense if theyre being used and knocked about - but do any of you think that a lid that has literally just been in a box, could have deteriorated - should I just chuck it out, yes it was expensive but I do like my head and value it, most of the time, and so if anyone could offer me good advice it would be appreciated.
If in doubt get a new one. Really good offer on HJCs at Lids Direct. Top spec lids, pretty much same as Lorenzos at less that £200. Bar-Gin Chuck up some pics of the bike if you can. Love the Diavel, bloody awesome machine
thanks for the reply - do you mind me asking why, do you think it will have softened or something else - I used to have a lot to do with boats, and theyre all made of fibreglass and yes they might go soft after 20 yrs sat in salt water but sod all would happen to them if they were kept wrapped up for as many years as you'd like?
Welcome - article here discusses it For How Long Is A Motorcycle Helmet Okay? | Motorcycle Blog from JAFRUM
There are helmets out there that are designed for Naked bikes. I had an XR1100 and changed to a GTAir both Shoei the GTAir is very quiet compared to the XR1100.
After reading that my arai st george is officially retired . I have another but its nearly xmas . OP if I were you id get a new one .
wroughtiron - many thanks for that - makes very interesting reading - so helmets 'evaporate' - mmm? - I don't doubt that lids deteriorate, everything does, I also think that some of this is also a very satisfactory method of ensuring people keep spending money on new lids as often as possible - can anyone see a manufacturer saying, nope, don't change it it'll be fine for 10 years, and losing 50% of their sales - clearly wouldn't ever happen - and how many people will find another £500 when told their head will get squashed - you don't dare not - including me, so also thanks for the suggested lids.
Its amazing looking at the Sharp 5 star rated helmets. My Arai RX7 (£700 ) is 4 star rated but this MT Revenge (£64.99) - nope Ive never heard of them either - gets 5 stars?! Smell something fishy?
I'll vouch for the GT Air as well. Quiet but best of all light as well. I wonder how much extra you pay for the sun visor though. I don't use mine. Bit of a gimmick to my mind. Excellent lid though and the matt black (with or without white stripe) will look just the job on a Diavel.
If i had just spent £10k+ on a bike, i wouldn't baulk at spending a few hundred quid to protect my head in any potential accident. I would think helmet design has come a long way in 10 years anyway.
Yes...that I can believe...based on a gut feel that if it looks ok...it must be ok. I mean you never see a piece of old plastic that just fell apart as soon as you touched it. What do Ciba-Geigy and such other world wide experts know about plastic deterioration with time. It's all a big multi-billion pount conspiracy to make us buy more lids! We do that just to keep up with this years colours / patterns....just look at Golf, Ski and Scuba wear!!
Materials change. The stuff they made the lids from a decade ago wont be as good as the materials they use now. Its your head, its important. Buy a new lid
I wouldnt use a 10yr old lid Mike. Your Diavel is pushing out impressive bhp and will shift along at a rate of knots that would embarrass your old 916. I replace my arai's every 5 yrs or sooner if ive had a knock. Your head is quite important to you. But you make the choices for yourself and if you are happy that its fine then go for it. After all its you that you have to convince.
If I'd spent £10K+ on a bike I wouldn't waste money on a new helmet if yours is as new old stock. Padgett's are selling old stock helmets now so ask them! It is bullshit other than replacing if you drop it or it gets a few years of general wear and tear. Bullshit I tell you..... Do the gullible believers think it of Fibre Glass, Injection Moulded Plastics and Carbon / Kevlar ones too? Should you replace Carbon structural seat units, frames and wheels every 5 years too? And you need to buy my number plate to go with your bike
You dont wear those on yer heed @Exige. I accept that theres nothing much worth protecting within your bonce. :Bag: I base my risk assessments after having a vans rear wheels driving over my head whilst wearing an relatively new arai. :Banghead: You evaluate the risks and take your own choices. For the sake of a few hundred quid I ensure I mitigate risk to a minimum. Besides Ive got more intellect and intelligence to lose than you do. :Smuggrin::Smug: hehe.....we need a fishing emoticon.
I would imagine wheels and seat sub frames to be as critical as a helmet, but then that's just me obviously - and I admit if my head is damaged (or further damaged) I am in the small minority of people having enough left to function beyond the norm - so thanks for the compliment Bootsie! :Happy:
Unless it was meant as an insult You know a lot more about polymers and helmet testing than me obviously Bootsie Hare, believe the bull shit if you wish. A new old stock helmet from Padgett's of say a 10 year old 'will' perform exactly as it did 10 years ago. Helmets do not have a sell by or safety limit regarding age for a reason, they do not require one. It's fine to say, I won't take the risk - I will buy every 5 years 'just in case' that's anyone prerogative. It's also correct that to some extend technology will progress to some extent - but that is a clearly different argument and statement and not relative to a 5 year 'rule'. But to state it is detrimental to the helmets performance is wrong and purely marketing bullshit. While involved in the design and manufacture of a High End Fire Helmet for Lion Apparel I asked the question of the BSI tester whilst in the labs that test helmets in the UK - he thought I was stupid for asking as it's all marketing bollocks, I know I'm not stupid as do you (comment to leave me open to ridicule), therefore Bootsie must be Food for thought from another forum (American I think as it mentions Snell): Helmet Replacment after 5 years...WHY? Something to ponder for a Wednesday... This will take a few minutes, so go take a piss, get another cup of coffee and sit back... I have recently bought another new Arai helmet. It seems I am/was purchasing a new helmet every couple years or so. For whatever reason: wanted a new style, new color, better ventilation, etc, etc, etc. Previously I was spending 150$ or less per helmet. Since moving up in price and hopefully quality, crash-worthiness, etc my 500$ + lid should serve me for several years.NOTE::: I do not want to hear your dribble on why you would never buy a used helmet...and this is sort of the point on my post here...determining how to evaluate a used helmet. Remember as soon as you wear your brand new helmet on a ride..it is used!I have scoured the flea market for a used helmet to have as a spare for rough and tumble days as to prolong my new Arai lid a few more miles. I have fell into the trap of asking when was the helmet manufactured, how long have you owned it, any damage, and the usual other relevant questions. I say trap, but with a disclaimer...more on that in a bit. The rule-of-thumb is to replace a non-crashed helmet every 5 years... According to Web Bike World and the Snell Foundation: Why should you replace your helmet every five years?The five-year replacement recommendation is based on a consensus by both helmet manufacturers and the Snell Foundation. Glues, resins and other materials used in helmet production can affect liner materials. Hair oils, body fluids and cosmetics, as well as normal "wear and tear" all contribute to helmet degradation. Petroleum based products present in cleaners, paints, fuels and other commonly encountered materials may also degrade materials used in many helmets possibly degrading performance. Additionally, experience indicates there will be a noticeable improvement in the protective characteristic of helmets over a five-year period due to advances in materials, designs, production methods and the standards. Thus, the recommendation for five-year helmet replacement is a judgment call stemming from a prudent safety philosophy. I am going to break this statement down ---way down--- in a minute so bear with me while I throw some numbers in your face. That sounds reasonable enough on the onset but take into consideration a few items that may increase or reduce the "life" of a helmet. I preface my examples that are assumed the helmet has not been involved in any type of crash and been taken care of as any average motorcyclist should. Say for instance a helmet was manufactured in January 2007. With the "5 year plan" that helmet would, by default, be ready for the scrap heap by now. However, consider that the same helmet was made in 01/2007, sat in its original box on a shelf in a store or warehouse until 01/2008. So that's one year that the helmet was not in use or exposed to any perceivable damaging effects. Would this helmet have an extended life expectancy of greater than 5 years since the first year of its life was spend in isolation. Now take it a step further and look at the actual road (in use) hours of a helmet. I did some quick stats and figure I have my helmet on my 'noggin for nearly 700 hours per year. Taking into consideration that I ride/commute every day, all year plus weekend jaunts, and 4 weeks vacation time per year...I wear my helmet quite a bit in all types of weather. Now analyze a more typical rider and say he may wear his helmet 350 hours a year. He commutes to work only in the warmer months, April - October, and takes a two weekend rides per month and then one week with the boys per year. Let us call him Sam. Final example...a fair-weather rider and logs only 150 hours a year since he rides only on Saturday and Sunday during May - September when there is no chance of rain, and then only to the local beer joint and back home...a long day in the saddle for this guy is an hour. We will call him Joe. See...my point...???? There are too many variables, IMO, to have a blanket statement to scrap a helmet after 5 years. My 5 years will have a conservative 3500 hours versus Sam that may have only 1750 hours or even fair-weather Joe that has 750 hours. WOW!...I put nearly as many hours in one year than Joe does in five years. Now, I do realize that in theory, my 700 hours/year lid should be replaced more often than Joe's 150 h/y lid. But, conversely, in theory, shouldn't' Joe's lid last him much, much longer than mine...maybe 8-10 years? And what about Sam? Is he the typical rider that the "5 year plan" is relevant? So would more relevant questions to ask a initial owner about a used helmet be: How many hours have you worn the helmet? What are your riding styles? Dual Sport, Street, Track, Bar hopping, touring??? What bike do you ride? Where do you store the helmet when not in use? In its bag on a shelf? Thrown in the same garage corner where you store your lawn mower gas? In the attic where its 150Fin the summer and 20F in the winter? ...lost of variables come into play when determining the actual life of a helmet. I understand that the helmet manufacture folks are in the business of selling helmets. The Snell Foundation is not. I also understand that there has to be some "price-tag" put on the life expectancy of everything. Even an anvil will wear out sooner or later. Realistically, who keeps a helmet 5 years and then trashes it for a new one? Most of us...yours truly included...want newer, better, etc and will, most likely, buy a new lid before the 5 years are expired. But for the sake of argument...and back to my original point...what is the real life-expectancy of a helmet that has been taken care of? Now let me break down the statement I copied from the Snell Foundation web site. My break-down will be noted in yellow color font...hi-viz font...that is... The five-year replacement recommendation is based on a consensus by both helmet manufacturers and the Snell Foundation. Consensus according to Merriam-Webster: general agreement : unanimity; the judgment arrived at by most of those concerned : group solidarity in sentiment and belief. With consensus there is no scientific fact or basis. Consensus is just a group of people agreeing on an item. So the consensus is that Snell and the helmet mfgs agree to replace at 5 years. HMMM! Glues, resins and other materials used in helmet production can affect liner materials. Hair oils, body fluids and cosmetics, as well as normal "wear and tear" all contribute to helmet degradation. Petroleum based products present in cleaners, paints, fuels and other commonly encountered materials may also degrade materials used in many helmets possibly degrading performance. This makes sense and I agree (this part has my consensus). However there is no backing data to support this statement either. "Possibly" degrading performance...shit a brick, I could possibly fly to the moon if I had a rocket on my back. This, IMO, is where I would like to see some data to back up this statement. Do a test on Joe's helmet after 5 years and compare it to mine. See if mine had degraded more. In theory my helmet, if based on this statement, should be ready for the sanitation department after only a couple years as compared to Joe's helmet that may last into the next decade. And would a female rider's helmet have be more degraded since she may have hair care products, make-up, perfume, etc, etc, that most real men frown upon wearing. Hey you metro-sexual blokes...step away at this point...I am not talking to you...drink your latte and get your pedicure. You have no business reading this forum anyhow. Additionally, experience indicates there will be a noticeable improvement in the protective characteristic of helmets over a five-year period due to advances in materials, designs, production methods and the standards. Thus, the recommendation for five-year helmet replacement is a judgment call stemming from a prudent safety philosophy.HMMM now this is very interesting...I do agree that most mfgs improve their helmets as time goes on plus with market research and field testing new styles are made and improvements over existing styles. But IMO...this is the catch 22 that we as motorcyclist are in. Is the helmet REALLY degraded to a point that it MUST be replaced or "should" it be replaced because better, faster, nicer, etc is now available? I know there is a lot of food-for-thought in this post. But these things are on my mind today...now they are on yours as well.
