I'm sorry you find it a pain but the way i've done our website is about as simple and factual a way as I think is possible to get the info across. I'm open to suggestions if you think there is a better way? Oh and just to ensure accuracy, the cost isn't the thick end of £800, it's more like £700 for the full service. VAT, oil, filter plus service consumables are included. Unfortunately when you do as we do and try to make it as cheap as possible whilst still attempting to make a living, it's impossible to "just give you the total price for a job" as every job is different - it's a completely sliding scale. That's why i've put the age and mileage related service articles in a different place. Some riders take no care of their machines whatsoever and think that maintenance is putting petrol in it!!!! On the flip side, some guys go to the other extremes and that makes our job that little bit easier. Then you take in to account how it's been ridden; like it's been stolen every time it goes out or gently round the back roads on a warm summer's evening. These and an endless multitude of factors determine how much a bike will cost to service. Does it need the shims changed, brake pads, tyres, plugs and so on. The cost of that lot cannot be built in to every service as it would artificially inflate the price for many that don't need it. One size does not fit all in this case. Examples: - Average mileage in the UK for a Sportsbike rider is between 2k and 4k miles a year. The earliest Panigale customers are now entering their fourth season with their bikes. 1) If you look at the lower end of that average scale some riders have done circa 6k miles on their Panigale. Valves don't need done yet, fluids should have been done this year so they should have paid roughly £65 (2012 run in service) £230 (2013 annual service) £374 (2014 annual plus fluids) and it should be £230 again in 2015 2) At the other end of the scale we've got riders approaching 25k+ miles on their Panigale and their servicing bills are a very different story. But tbh that's because they use their bikes. It's no criticism at all but there is obviously a consequence on the cost of servicing in that scenario. It's also fair to add that the Panigale is a masterpiece of compact engineering and the motor is in a particularly high state of tune, servicing one of these properly is not like just changing the oil in a car. These machines take a bit of stripping (as they can be tight to work on) and ultimately time-sapping care and attention to make sure they are capable of going back out and running at high triple digit mph numbers / handle like they are on rails / stop on a coin and do all that reliably with 15,000 service intervals. It's not so easy. Mart
@Martin Ducati Glasgow, thank you for taking the time to reply fully to my general dissatisfaction with how some dealers make what should be simple far from it. If you really want a suggestion, at the booking in stage I would like to know what the hourly labour rate is, how long the job will take and what the unit price is for the parts, be that oil and filter or whatever. I suspect Ducati is no different to many car manufacturers who menu price most if not all routine jobs so your workshop is given the time it should take to do a particular job so it's hardly rocket science. The relationship I have with my dealer is as simple as that. If there are minor issues to resolve, I agree an overspend figure that does not need my prior approval. If there is a major horror any work must have my authorisation. It works well for me and for the workshop manager. If I got my maths wrong, that was because I was unclear what the charges are from your web page so perhaps it is not as straight toward as you think you tried to make it. That said I applaud your ethos for trying to make pricing as clear as possible. Andy
@Android853sp I think I see what you are driving at and i'll have a go at answering. Forgive me if i'm wrong but your frustration doesn't seem to be at the way servicing is advertised as such. It's more how you feel it should be communicated by the network to the end user by firstly advertising (web or otherwise) and then the actual experience when you are in the workshop / dealership. It'll probably be best to address each of your points in turn:- I can't really speak for other dealers and how complicated or not they make their service pricing but in actual fact it's a relatively complicated thing to try and address. We've tried to streamline it as much as possible but with so many engine configurations covering so many years (2 valve, 3 valve, 4 valve, air cooled, water cooled, Desmoquattro, Testastretta, Testastretta Evoluzione, 11 degree variants, Superquadro etc) there's a fair amount to attempt to simplify. We have tried to condense it to 10 service plans but it's not easy. The hourly rate is quite easy as everybody in a dealership or service centre will almost definitely know it. Ask on the phone but everywhere is different due to their specific overheads. I think someone did a comparison on here once??? See my last post for how long a job will take - it really is a sliding scale and there is no way to tell how long some jobs will take. To quote you prior to a job can be almost impossible; don't see it as someone trying to screw you over and being evasive - it's simply because they won't know until they open the bike up. For example, if we took off the cam covers on your bike and measured all of your valve clearances and none needed adjusted, we would simply put the covers back on and you've won a watch as it's done in minimal time. If however we measure them and you need inlet and exhaust on both cylinders (bearing in mind you have a maximum of 16 shims that potentially need replaced) it's cam shafts out on both cylinders, measuring, double checking and refitting, cam timing re-done and so on and it's lot of works that can take time (read money!!). Typically 2 or 3 shims need replaced but no one knows how exactly how long until they are up to their elbows in it. Of course manufacturers have time estimates but they're usually not too accurate and don't necessarily mean you will pay less if quoted from them. Some times they are worked out given the fact the bike is already stripped, they don't take into account seized fasteners, unforeseen issues. Or indeed they can quote the maximum time to do all 16 shims when in fact you didn't need anything like that. So you're right, it's not rocket science but there is no hard and fast rule. I'm sure you don't want to pay for something you didn't need done so most dealers leave extra stuff out of their pricing until they find you actually need it. Good news as it keeps your bills down but bad news for giving us the ability to price the job ahead of time. Parts prices - as long as no one is doing a special offer of some sort, all the dealers should be using the prices supplied by Ducati. We don't muck with them as there are literally millions to deal with. They change with exchange rates from time to time so our server talks automatically with the one in Italy to do so. Therefore you want prices, just ask, i'm pretty sure we are all the same. The dialogue your workshop manager has with you - Sounds exactly right. We do our best to do it precisely that way. We give our customers a rough price based on 12 years' experience. We contact them if that price has to change for whatever reason. That rough price is also the one we quote on the website for a typical cost of a service given no "surprises". Sounds like the relationship you have there is a good one. The clarity of pricing on our web service pages - I've been looking at the specific Panigale page for a while with a view to how I can make it even clearer. The page states that the prices include VAT and there are only three prices in bold on the page that add up to a total of £704.27. I genuinely don't see where the £800 figure came from however I can imagine you are probably thinking that price of oil etc goes on top but again, read the fine print and you'll see it's included. I will however keep it in mind and see if I can come up with a better / clearer solution. So apologies for the lengthy reply but the topic of servicing is always going to be a hot one. It involves ongoing expense and in my experience, just like you, people want to know precisely how much that will be so they can plan ahead and budget for it - with the economy the way it is, no one wants surprises come service time. I genuinely understand that, and that's why we try to make things as simple and menu driven as possible - but there are limits!! I'll say again though, it's a pretty complex set of parameters to deal with and every bike is different, requiring different levels of care and therefore cost. My advice to everyone is to do exactly what you do Andy, open a dialogue with your dealer / service centre ahead of your service due date. Then ask for a scale of estimated prices for the service, ask about stuff you think you might possibly need (plugs, filters, pads, shims) and then you set a budget for the dealer to try to work to; or they then call if they start to go over it. Write it all down and then you can plan ahead with as few surprises as possible. Mart
It's a rip off, Ducati keep telling us that a panigale is cheaper to run than a 1198.... Bollocks.. 15000 mile on 1198 cost me two belt changes, £700. Panigale £955..
@ijg5 What, you got away with no recycling/environment fee on top for recycling the old fluids My dealer charges for those as well. £995 is a bit different to @Martin Ducati Glasgow £704.27 - looks like your dealer has added rather than included fluid costs. This is the problem most of us have with franchise dealers, Ducati say one thing, the dealers do/say another. Still, it's cheaper than my KTM twin service.
