The only people that are effectively race and religion as one are Jewish..........IMO And I don't see that as a problem..........well, not for me anyway...
There is no jewish race,it is only a religion,hence you can be jewish,but a national of any country in the world.
Clearly that has to be true. There's no such thing as a 'true' Jew / Christian / Muslim - in any empirical way. The only meaningful interpretation is the personal - "I am a Jew" etc, etc. But that necessarily means that the community of 'all Muslims' will include all shades and levels of adherence to the faith and culture. So, trying to say that 'all Muslims are murderous bastards' is just meaningless and patently offensive, to me at least. And I'm not even Muslim - but I believe in mankind's inherent sense of community and despite everything that has happened today I think that the small percentage of genuine murderous bastards cannot and will not destroy that underlying goodness. (Ooh - I must be a hippy!?) That said - the whole premise of religion is flawed and divisive by its very nature - setting the 'chosen ones' against the heathens. Equally, let's not kid ourselves that it is the only cause of trouble: money, political power, control of territory and assets are all factors in the mess that is the Middle East, but the modern era of fundamentalist Islam has been largely funded by the oil wealth of the Saudis, who have largely hijacked the Islamic religion for their own political ends. They have been funding ever-more radical Islamic teaching all over the world (particularly in Pakistan, but basically wherever they choose to have influence) since the mid-seventies, but our Governments have been far too interested in their huge piles of cash to take a principled stance about the havoc they are wreaking (and maybe too slow to notice?). If anyone in the Muslim 'world' is evil then it's the Saudi regime. They sit in their Bentleys (which none of their many wives is allowed to drive?!) parked outside Harrods, whilst tens of thousands of their fellow Muslims suffer from the chaos they have unleashed. And we sell them arms and security equipment proven 'in theatre' by Israeli security forces eagerly bulldozing Palestinian homes, schools and health centres in response to the desperately ineffective home-made rockets cobbled together by Hamas 'terrorists'. Who are probably also funded by various Gulf state regimes with more money than they know what to do with... They are the REAL f*ckers. <Have I gone off-topic? Sorry, it must be the Gin talking :Angelic:>
If Britain is a fundamentally Christian country, assuming we are not quite the full multi culti shilling yet, where we seem to go out of our way to welcome those of other faiths can anyone point to a Moslem country where those of other faiths are equally welcomed ? I am assuming we can rule out Saudi Arabia.
I am off the tonic as it happens. There's no alcohol in it. I mean, what's the point? A large Negroni for me - three ingredients, each of them alcoholic. "You do the math..." I do like a good ale though. Cheers!
Er, yes. Saudi Arabia is not even a good place to live if you're a Muslim Malaysia is a very peaceful, culturally mixed place? I'm sure there are other countries too, but the problem with Islam now as an organisation is that it has been hijacked from within and so even historically moderate countries and communities are feeling the fire from the well-organised and well-funded radicals. There's nothing as uncomfortable and hard to resist as peer-pressure... That's precisely why we need to encourage moderate Muslims to feel part of something bigger, more enduring and more forward-looking than is being proposed by their more radical cousins.
Don't equate Christianity with the "religion" of these murdering bastards. To give you an idea, how would you feel if a some murderous British Muslims had wiped out Private Eye because it made jokes about their religion along with everyone else's? This strand of Islam wants to stamp out education, art, music, dancing, laughter - civilisation in short. That deserves condemnation. So what of the rest of Islam? Well wise up. Read "Europe's Angry Muslims" - not written from any agenda - and look at the percentages of Muslim immigrants or children of immigrants who identify themselves with their host country. The fact is, huge amounts of them don't. And it will maybe come as a surprise to you to learn that British Muslims are the least integrated in Europe, French Muslims the most. I was watching Newsnight as the questioning turned towards vaguely blaming the French for not adopting "multiculturalism". But the facts are simple. The French believe in secularism and in integrating immigrants into French values where religion has to take a back seat to more important things. The British on the other hand, feel it is great to accept immigrants who should just create a mini Pakistan in Luton or Bradford. Britain does its best not to integrate anyone: British culture should take a back seat to the sorts of culture which are anathema to British values. The French attack is one on the values of free speech and laughter. Only the Muslim religion can't take a joke, or feel that it should be punished with death. Whether or not most Muslims agree with this action (and I'm sure that most don't) I am equally sure that many feel ambivalent about it as for them, blasphemers get what they deserve. In that sense I agree with Pete's sentiments, no matter how friendly I feel towards individual Muslims. You don't gun down people who take the piss out of you. I don't care how tasteless their jokes are. You don't do it. It's as simple as that and there is no excuse or parallel to be drawn with anything else. God knows, in the state that these people wish to create, we'd all be for the chop, on the strength of the posts I've read over the past year or so. In that sense, je suis Charlie aussi.
