I'm sure that is an alarming read, but presumably a book entitled "Europe's Happy Muslims" is unlikely to hit the best-sellers list on Amazon. Not being flippant, but it's also true that the most 'English' people you will ever meet are the ex-pats in Canada, New Zealand and Hong Kong, where they cling on to their culture and history whilst the homeland is ever-evolving out of all recognition. Plus ca change That doesn't in itself lead to acts of terrorism against their adopted country. Are Muslim ex-pat communities somehow differently wired? I don't think so. Show me ANY country where religion dominates daily life that has democracy and freedom of speech. It's just that the influence of Christianity has - naturally - faded in most of the developed / Western world. All religions are anti-democratic and pro-censorship. That is the nature of the beast. Fundamentalist Islam is currently well-funded and consequently it is a right pain in the arse. Countries where Christianity is equally dominant are also quite un-democratic. Only a couple of years ago the Catholic Church in England tried to excuse itself from equality legislation on the basis that it was against their religion. Ok, so that's not equivalent to gunning down journalists in cold blood, but it's only a matter of degree. Religious bodies see themselves as fundamentally above the democratically-determined law of the land. F*ckers. All of them
And the French have been the bravest in ensuring that religion takes a back seat to real values of importance. I see a parallel with the Mafia in Italy. This has existed like a cancer in society ruining livelihoods and impoverishing people because it has ruled by fear and has the tacit support of the community and their subscribing to the law of omertà. The Muslim thing will, if not stamped out, go the same way. The extremists will decide with gun and the bomb what can or cannot be done and the Muslim community will shelter them out of some vague sympathy with their viewpoint. Until that community is vocal and determined in its condemnation of this creed and serious about its willingness to weed it out it's going to be viewed with some sort of suspicion. The Palestine thing is a red herring. Two wrongs don't make a right.
We need more rating buttons. Here are my suggestions. ? = I don't understand this post. = I agree with some points, bit not others. :Facepalm:= Put on the ignore list :Finger:= well i think one explains its self. += EVEN funnier. = Nurse (ET) he's out of bed again...moderator required. :Muted:= @Exige button or shush :Bookworm:=Smart Arse..used for spelling and correct use of English etc. $:Cigar:£= He's try to sell me something.. Again.
Agreed. France is the birthplace of secularism and in that sense I'd rather be French than English. That analogy works both ways: we accept that the Mafia is a largely criminal minority abusing their position and influence to gain money and power, but why do we insist on slagging off all Muslims as though the many are responsible for the few...? If I'm not wrong, the tide has been turned against the Mafia simply by imposing the rule of law more rigourously, which is what we should do with any wannabe terrorists. Not deport the entire Muslim community because they are somehow 'in cahoots'? Palestine is not simply a red herring. It is an ongoing abuse of human rights on a scale which cannot simply be ignored. But it has little to do with the Islamic fundamentalist terrorism of recent decades: does ISIS or Al-Quaeda actually give a sh*t about the poor, trapped Palestinians? If anything it's of useful PR value: if it's a red herring then it's a red herring for both sides and the Palestinians are - as usual - properly f*cked over. Guess who pockets most of the reconstruction money donated by the EU every time the West Bank is bulldozed? Israeli-owned construction companies. And you wonder why this conflict is never resolved? Most of the people in a position to resolve it have more to lose than to gain... F*ckers. :Angelic:
Sadly my knowledge of the Quran comes solely if not entirely from the snippets of Christopher Hitchens however I have had reason to skirt around the edges of Sharia Law and probably paid more attention to it than I should have done. In terms of Sharia Law at least it is possible to differentiate between the misnomers of Orthodox Muslims, moderate Muslims or whatever phrase one should choose to use. Sharia Law is complex and in some states, as everyone knows, completely barbaric (although some of the business ethics, at least in principle, are rather nice). My memory of it is sketchy but here goes.... Sharia Law, the Quran and the Hadiths (the teachings &c of the Prophet Mohammed) are inseparable. Sharia Law is the embodiment of a religious law and moral code to which Muslims are to adhere. The Quran is used to interpret Sharia Law. Sharia Law and the Hadith are used to interpret the Quran. The three are completely intertwined. Ultimately, Sharia Law is the law of God. What God says is contained within in the Quran (including or not as the case may be all the barbarism that I've read / heard it is said to contain or not contain depending upon who it is that's doing the writing / talking). It is worth bearing in mind that the law of God as set out in the Quran is 1400 years old. There are god knows how many schools of religious doctrine under the three main branches of Islam (Sunni, Shia and some'at else that I can't remember) that each give rise to a body of Islamic jurisprudence and the beliefs (Hadith) that they follow. Each branch or school of thought arises from differing records of the teachings (Hadiths) of the Prophet Muhammed to which they believe. The laws and the application of those laws are derived in order of precedence from: 1.The actual verses in the Quran, then if no such analogous tale is found, 2.The Sunnah (the correct ways of life prescribed by Muhammed [taken from the Hadiths that that branch of Islam / region in question adheres to]) 3. Comparison between the Sunnah and the Quran. 4. Reasoning of the Islamic Judges. Shariah law therefore sets out a set of beliefs, moral codes and so on that people of Islamic faith must adhere to in everyday life. Sharia Law has no status whatsoever in either English Law (or Scots Law) or the laws of just about any other non-Muslim country (other than perhaps some elements of family law in some countries). It follows therefore that if a person does not reside in a country governed by Sharia Law then that person cannot abide by the true orthodox religion of Islam and therefore cannot by definition be a Muslim as prescribed in the orthodox sense of Islam or in accordance with the origins of the religion. Furthermore, what I do know about Islam is that an abandonment of a principle or belief of the Quran or Hadith, including therefore the abandonment of Sharia Law, constitutes an act of apostasy. An apostatical Muslim, by definition, renounces their religious faith and therefore can no longer be a Muslim. There are many everyday acts that constitute apostasy in Islam (punishable in the most brutal of ways) and in respects of such acts, offenders are not true Muslims according to the Muslim world. Drinking, shagging about in certain circumstances, celebrating Christmas, entering a church etc count as other examples. It could be, possibly, that a person with Muslim beliefs abides by the requirements of Sharia Law but just doesn't not endure the punishment commensurate with any transgression. But that to me seems rather plastic and I haven't given any thought to whether or not that constitutes a apostasy in any event. Rather fortuitously and paradoxically for any devout Muslim, it is the absence of Sharia Law in the UK that protects any apostate from whatever brutal punishment is prescribed for any given act of apostasy. I'm sure a smart Alec will come along as is often the case but that's about my understanding of it off the top of my head combined with a quick look at the notes &c I saved on my iPad. If my understanding is incorrect then I apologise. In any event, of the attacks yesterday, the outside money's on a Marine Le Pen inside job.
I'm not slagging off all Muslims. I don't have a beef with people who mind their own business. Although the beliefs of the other major religions are every bit as far-fetched as Islam, they aren't constantly in the news for trying to blow people up. The analogy with the Mafia is valid, I think, because of the silence of the majority. If the tide is beginning to turn against the Mafia, it is only due the community grassing them up; saying "enough is enough. This is wrong and I want no part of it. I am not going to let these people act with impunity." It is nothing to do with just "imposing the rule of law". In Northern Ireland, the IRA had the support of the community. Many RCs may not have agreed with shooting Protestants in the face or blowing them up, but they didn't disagree enough not to finance them. It is this ambivalence that allows the situation to continue. Islamic fundamentalism isn't just a couple of nutters. It's networks of people on Facebook, an army in the Middle East, many millions of ££ in funding. And that is the result of the ambivalence of a large part of the Muslim community. Fundamentalism is the result of a Wahhabite ideology which has massive support from Saudi Arabia, notably. The Palestinian injustice lends a surface legitimacy to Muslim beefs. But it's one very very small part of the World. You can't base the legitimacy of a whole world religion on that.
Agree with everything you said except for this last comment. However much one dislikes the National Front in France, you can't lay the blame for Islamic fundamentalism at the door of Le Pen - however much it serves her interests. It's just another event in a continuum one of the earliest manifestations of which was the fatwa on Rushdie. Same thing: we don't like what you say or write, so we kill you.
Nonsense, utter utter unadulterated Crap, i was baptised as a child as were my brothers and sisters. Neither of my parents ever went to church except for said baptism's, or the occassional wedding. I had no choice in the matter and at that age would have clearly had no ability to change it even if i had had an awareness of the whole sorry pantomime. I am most certainly not a christian, i have no need of an imaginary friend. If i were the sort to be easily offended, being accused of being christian would be almost as bad as being accused of being a muslim. The sooner this world is eradicated of all organised religion the better we will all be. WE ARE CHARLIE
Nonsense. With basic training anyone could do this. I was conscripted and everyone I trained with, most with zero experience of any sort of weapon, got pretty good at handling various automatic weapons after just a few sessions. Really, it isn't hard. It is a fucked up world and what happened was atrocious, but some comments here about Muslims are pretty fucked up as well.
I've been trying to think of peaceful, prosperous and free Islamic countries. Malaysia is the only one I can think of which even begins to score on all three counts. Oman is unusually peaceful by middle eastern standards and quite a nice place to go on holiday. And that's the best I can do. Its not an encouraging track record for a culture with ambitions to take over the world.
And the countries that consistently come at or very near the top of "best place to live" surveys are, secular scandinavian ones. As well as iceland and new zealand , neither of which are known for their hardline religious stance. It is not a coincidence.
I said 'just suppose'.......... ........what's your real name? Jack Reacher? But if you were conscripted (in the UK), you probably ain't not never fired an AK47....... I suggest you go and try one out..........it isn't exactly what you would call a precision firearm unlike an M16.
You can add Qatar to that list, Gimlet. As long as you aren't an immigrant labourer on a building site, of course.
This is why I agree with Bradders and Pete who talk in terms of being at war; they take our money for their oil and use that money against us. This is a clash of cultures and beliefs where our liberal democratic values are seen as a soft target, because they are. And the truly scary thing is that "terrorists" often win, because they can play the long game. Islam is a rising tide that will engulf us all, and the "moderate" moslems will sit back and watch it happen.
A colleague of mine who is Malaysian of Chinese descent works in the EU because as a Chinese in Malaysia he is discriminated against. His words, not mine.
