But the real point is non-jihadists don't kill people when they feel offended. We just take it on the chin.
It would be great if anyone following this debate could take a bit of time to watch and comment on this guy's You Tube videos. Pat Condell - YouTube
If the stated aim of these savages is a caliphate that eliminates all those that oppose it, think for a moment what that means. It means... #1 All the multiculturism, tolerance and softly softly approach in the world will not stop them. #2 The above is clearly true as their actions recently demonstrate. #3 Their own moderates have no affect on their actions. #4 Therefore the only conclusion is they need to be stopped by a greater force than they can bring to bear, either sooner or later but certainly eventually. #5 Either A: a force of ideology or B: something more solid which do you think it is likely to need bearing in mind what we already know? Remember also that "those that oppose it" means everyone that deviates by the slightest margin from exactly what their views are. Would you think that moderate, elder and wise members of the muslim community fall into this category?
Possibly and if so we are doomed. The only educated articulate Muslim I've ever seen in interviews is that guy who founded the Quillam Foundation to counter Muslim extremism. He's been on Question Time too. We need more Muslims like him to put their heads above the parapet.
He's called Maajid _Nawaz and he's a bit of a poacher-turned gamekeeper - from Wikipedia: Himself a former member of the Islamist revolutionary group Hizb ut-Tahrir, he was arrested in December 2001 in Egypt and was imprisoned there until 2006. He resigned from Hizb-ut-Tahrir in 2007, and co-founded Quilliam with former activists from radical Islamist organisations, including Ed Husain.
Ex-muslims - people with an Islamic background who oppose its doctrines - include some wonderful and brave folk, a few of whom I am privileged to know personally. They deserve all possible encouragement and protection. They need that protection because it is a fundamental tenet of Islam that apostates must be killed. Every muslim learns this, and is taught that if they ever deviate from it they themselves become apostates and must be killed. That includes every so-called moderate or reasonable muslim too, without exception.
That's it.....:Arghh: I've heard enough.....:Facepalm: I'm selling up and moving down to Oz with @NZDave unch: :Blackeye: :Bag: For those without a sense of humour today.....this is a joke.
We are not doomed, thats a very defeatist attitude. A confrontation is inevitable, we have the choice as to when and how that confrontation takes place.
'Freedom of speech' ... sounds great doesn't it? So what is the next word? '... but ...' I am just waiting to see what the newspapers, magazines, media outlets, and commentators who today are expressing support for Charlie Hebdo and horror at the murders will be saying next week. Half of them will be back-pedalling: freedom of speech is OK up to a point, but don't offend people, don't insult religions, don't provoke anyone, don't actually exercise freedom of speech about anything which matters. The Financial Times has already started down this road - from today's issue: ‘This is not in the slightest to condone the murderers, who must be caught and punished, or to suggest that freedom of expression should not extend to satirical portrayals of religion. It is merely to say that some common sense would be useful at publications such as Charlie Hebdo, and Denmark’s Jyllands-Posten, which purport to strike a blow for freedom when they provoke Muslims.’ So it starts.
Totally agree. What makes Islam special? The FT should hang its head in shame. I'm a national newspaper journalist and would like to see every newspaper in Britain publish an offensive cartoon on its front page to make the point that we are free and abide only by the rules of a democratically ejected government. Solidarity against extremists is the only thing that can defeat them - not appeasement. Didn't we learn anything from 1936?
I love the multiracial nature of British society, I love that people from every corner of the globe desire to come here, and I love the advances in diversity and equality which we have achieved in my lifetime. Folk who want to come to Britain to live and work, obey the laws, pay the taxes, contribute to the economy, and participate in the British way of life are welcome, as far as I am concerned. Then there are folk who desire to escape from some murderous hell-hole and risk everything to get to Europe and safety (a small proportion of whom end up in Britain). On a small island we don't have room for all of them, but at least we can feel deep sympathy for their plight. Where I draw the line is people who do not share European values, who have no intention of joining our way of life, who disobey every law and avoid every tax they can get away with, and whose goal is to spread around Europe more of the same barbarism, misery, tyranny, poverty, and ignorance from which their country of origin suffers. And there is no avoiding the plain fact that these are mainly, although not exclusively, muslims.
I'd like to share your optimism. But history shows us that even if right triumphs the collateral damage on the way to that victory will be enormous. And there are a hell of a lot of Muslims who couldn't be trusted to side with the rest of us if the chips are down. So our view of society is, I fear, doomed. Next step, internment of all Muslims. Could happen if there's a daily Charlie Hebdo-style outrage. How many deaths would it take for our civil liberties to be suspended do you think?
I detest organised religion and wax between disbelief and jealousy that intelligent functioning people can hold such views. I accept that I'm in the second half or may be third of my time here (Alive,..not on the forum) and sometimes wish that I could believe that there is some else after this. This happens mainly when I consider people I've known who are no longer here, rather than some self pity. Sadly I never can and have to console myself that we are all made of star dust and will eventually return to the same..... Have i put this in the wrong thread? Perhaps...Quantum Physics | Page 40 | Ducati Forum
I would have liked to see them all support Salman Rushdie, who was threatened with death in 1988 for writing a book - but instead lots of them condemned Rushdie for being provocative, insulting, etc. I would have liked to see them all re-publish the Danish cartoons - but not one publication in UK was brave enough, let alone all of them. Now as you rightly say every publication in Britain and the world should support Charlie not just with vague waffle but with actions. I bet they won't though.
The U.K had a group of people through the 70's,80's and 90's that differed in the views of the way we are ruled and used guns and bombs to try to persuade those that hold a different view. Tragic though it was, the almost daily killings of soldiers and taxi drivers had little visible affect on policy. Then the city of london was attacked, as a consequence the money men said "sort this out or we're off to Frankfurt" . Suddenly an agreement was reached. Unfortunately i think civilian deaths wont shake the government into any action. Only a serious attack on our economic infrastructure will do that.
