Charlie Hebdo Atrocity

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by Kirky, Jan 7, 2015.

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  1. Or perhaps
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Alternatively

    image.jpg
     
  3. Wolf Blass Platinum Label Shiraz 2006, Barossa - Search for 'wolf blass' - Homepage - Tesco Wine by the Case
    is probably go to be my next "investment" or may be this
    Premium Wolf Blass Reds Mixed Case - Search for 'wolf blass' - Homepage - Tesco Wine by the Case
     
  4. Got this one lined up to have with dinner: image.jpg
     
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  5. But at that price point this one is wasted on me.
     

  6. Really? Really? It's a play on words, replacing "th" with "d" - it's called wordplay.

    " ....for all that I know" -indeed.

    P.s. I got 99% in my cycling proficiency 95 years ago, so I am well qualified in maths..:D
     
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  7. math.
     
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  8.  
  9. One of the few sensible comments in 37 pages of what has been, in my opinion, mostly drivel!
     
  10. Oh? The posts about wine are ok though surely.
     
  11. I think this is a very good post and I largely agree with it.
    As far as I can see, most Muslims are probably a bit like most Christians. They are trying to get on with their lives. They've signed up to a a whacky religion, although to be more honest, they were born into it and it's a cultural artefact for them. They probably aren't too bothered about other religions: there were all sorts of places in Iraq where they coexisted fairly peacefully.

    Young, somewhat stupid people (especially guys) want a black and white answer to a complex world. If they can have that with a good dose of violence thrown in, so much the better. It appeals to their macho impulses, gives them a sense of self worth and a (deranged) moral compass. They don't want to decide things for themselves, they want a simple rulebook. Apart from the violence aspect, this is pretty much true of all people who sign up to sects, whether they be Scientologists, white witches, druids, fundamentalist Christians or fundamentalist Muslims.

    The monster media coverage of this sad event will encourage these people that they really do count in the world. Just as 9/11 did. In fact, if you give them this coverage, they DO count in the world. Just watch them.

    What should be done about it?
    I think that Islam is fairly pernicious. It's inherently fascist, as it differentiates between Muslims and infidels (all non-Muslims, indeed, all non-Muslims of the sect you adhere to). It also does nothing for learning, freedom or debate. Its values are at odds with those of contemporary western societies. But you don't want to start a war with it. What would that achieve?
    The best solution, it seems to me, is to let it whither. To do this, we should ban Muslim faith schools and madrasas in European countries. They are purely for the indoctrination of the young, and you want to minimise this as much as possible. Ban full-face veils in public too, in the same way as very short skirts would not be tolerated in many Muslim countries.
    Prevent immigrants bringing new spouses into the country automatically. Give them limited visas, then test them for English (or other language of the host nation) and integration. Allow those who pass to stay. Let them practice the religion they want, but be sure that you have at least a fighting chance of integrating them. If that doesn't suit, then the family can go and live in the foreign land of the spouse - it should work both ways. I think you'd find that British Pakistanis would stop marrying Pakistani first cousins under this regime, because they wouldn't want to go and live there.

    Our values are based on freedom and tolerance, but we should be intolerant of intolerance. For that, there should be no quarter. We have to stop being held to ransom by Muslim sensibilities which are always going to be incompatible with our own. Islam should trump nothing in the UK. If something is incompatible with Islam, then Islam should lose. There should be no talk of sharia courts or negotiation processes. There should be no public funding of anything Islamic, from educational establishments to mosques. These institutions should never have charitable status.
    My view is that Islam is a weed. Stop watering it, and it will die out, eventually. But carry on and it will probably grow.
     
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  12. Indeed.
     
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  13. To be served at 15°C...not had that bottle before....which merchant sells that?
     
  14. Rubbish...the wine comments have been "bang on the Nail".
     
  15. I set it up to try and stop them two arguing, however they missed it.
     
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  16. Good solution, but that's not really letting it wither - that's more like strangling it.

    Part of the problem is that various other religious groups are afforded special privileges and status, which makes it hard to deny the same privileges to Islamic groups. The solution has to involve no religious groups getting special privileges, so they are all treated equally. And we are still a long way from that.
     
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  17. Agree* with everything said, but have a question.
    If we ban the Madrasas, how can those that pass our test still practice their chosen faith?

    * This is about as right wing as I go.
     
  18. You are right, of course. It is more like strangulation. And you are pretty much right about your other point too.
    So essentially, we were happy being a lax Christian country, but since people of other cultures have elected to live in the UK, we are now compelled to offer them the freedoms they would deny to others (and do, in their homelands). Well, that clearly doesn't work.
    Christianity and religion with it are largely dying out in the UK. Little church-going, no great interest, agnosticism and atheism on the rise. But Islam is reversing this happy trend. I can't see the UK abandoning its Christian ties, so the only solution is to say that Christianity is the state religion (which it is - the Queen isn't a mufti) and gets special privileges. This will create a furore with Muslims, but they don't like us anyway, or our values, so what's the difference?
    You either pander to them or upset them. I can't see any other way of dealing with it. Pandering is what we have been doing, and it isn't working very well. We may just have to upset them.
     
  19. Best post on the subject so far. Thanks.
     
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