Streetfighter V Ktm 1290

Not sure whether this thread belongs here, in Other Bikes or the SF section. But a shootout with another make might be of general interest so here goes.

Test rode a KTM 1290 SDR today. KTM are having an open weekend so I thought I'd fill my boots. I rode in on the SF then took the 1290 out along the same route for a direct comparison. I was a bit nervous of doing this after the money I've spent tweaking the SF in case it got shot down. But not a bit of it. I'm happy to say that the Streetfighter more than held its own. And I'm not just saying that, it really did.

My SF is now making very similar power and torque to the 1290 SDR so to get as fair a comparison as possible I rode the KTM in Sport mode (the most aggressive throttle response) with the TC turned off. This engine feels exactly like a 990 that's had a lot more weetabix. You can tell its got the same DNA. All the usual KTM adjectives apply: revvy, loose, urgent, vibey, involving. Just more of all of it. KTMs rev more like multis than twins and so did this. Below 5K its soft and friendly. Get up past 6K into the traditional KTM vibey patch and the revs run away like a two stroke. There is prodigious torque there but you have to wind the throttle open to find it. The Ducati had by far and away the more aggressive, instantaneous, sock of wet sand on the back of the head power delivery. Yet the engine is smoother. (I'm so used to it that it takes a ride on another bike to appreciate just what a difference the balancing work has made). Compared to the SF, the KTM feels benign low down. The SF would never let me get away with the great fat handfuls of throttle I was winding in to the SDR at low revs. I'd get a cricked neck and bent handlebars. And probably a high-side if I wasn't upright.

The SDR takes off manically as the revs climb. Its bloody fast but it hasn't the thudding, hewn from granite feel of the Ducati and going by the speedo it was no faster over the same stretch of road. The SF is also livelier up top, or at least it feels it. Above 8K a different personality kicks in and the engine screams like a banshee. The KTM doesn't do that, it continues piling on revs and pulling your arms off and it doesn't let up, but at no point does it shriek off into the stratosphere. Whether the Ducati actually is faster, I doubt; I suspect it would be very hard to split them, but the character of the engine make it feel faster. Its visceral and brutish and ridden back-to-back feels the more exhilarating. And then there's the sound... The KTM isn't bad. You can tell its got some cubes down there and it barks and bangs on the overrun but its a million miles away from the stentorian bellow of the Ducati.

The Ducati also felt more planted at speed, which surprised me. Its got sportier geometry, less sophisticated suspension and the front end can be twitchy under power, but though the KTM gave a smoother, calmer ride it felt lighter at the front and more wayward under hard acceleration. The riding position is less racy on the KTM. The bars are higher and closer and you're sitting much more upright compared to the SF. Maybe both bike's are showing their DNA again but the KTM feels more supermoto and the Ducati more sportsbike. The KTM is very comfortable, but ultimately, if you're going to put this much poke into a naked bike, the tighter, hunkered posture of the Streetfighter is more confidence inspiring and probably lets you use more of that poke. I'm rubbish at wheelies so I'm not the best judge but my impression was that the KTM's tendency to wheelie has as much to do with sail-boat aerodynamics as raw power. Certainly it'll turn itself into a unicycle if you give it a fistfull but the SF will float its front wheel off the throttle just as readily and in my inexpert hands the process feels more controlled. The Ducati lifts its wheel on command and lowers it again the same, as if winched up and down directly by the throttle; the KTM felt more remote. I could feel wheel lift coming on some way off as if it was an inevitable consequence of revs and speed rather than something I'd asked for with the throttle.

All in all the Streetfighter felt tighter, stronger, more thuggish with more iron in its blood. When I got back on it to go home the punch almost caught me out a couple of times. Its less forgiving than the KTM, more muscular, more brutal, but every bit as usable and ultimately a more exciting bike. The KTM is a brilliant thing. The engine is a peach (if KTM put the 1290 in the RC8 they'd have a killer sportsbike). Anyone who buys one will love it but if someone gave me back all the money I've spent on my SF and offered me a straight swap with a 1290 SDR, I'd still keep the Ducati.

Its been a good day..

 

Bear in mind my SF isn't in standard tune. Its producing the same rwbhp as the SDR and is within snapping distance in torque. I wouldn't have expected the standard bike to offer a direct comparison. The interesting thing from my point of view is that the purchase price of my SF together with the cost of the tuning work pretty much adds up to the cost of a new SDR. It wasn't just a matter of comparing speed or power but the whole package. The SF has been breathed on and the KTM hasn't, so you have to wonder what the KTM would be like if it had had similar treatment, but then I wouldn't have been comparing bikes of similar price. Encouragingly though, as things are, for a similar spend I feel I've got more bike with the Ducati.
Really, what the ride showed was how different in character two bikes which were so similar on paper could be. And in that sense the Ducati isn't better, just different. Not everyone would like the SF's relentless delivery or the riding position of a sports bike with flat bars and they might find the KTM easier to live with. Each to their own. KTM have created a cracking bike but the Ducati does it for me.
Good question on the exhaust Bradders. Stupidly I didn't take note. Crescent do like blinging up their demo bikes. I'm going back to pick up some panniers for my SMT so I'll check on that.

 

That's true. My SF still has the original slave but then I don't do much town riding. I start to feel it if I get stuck in traffic. On the plus side if your hand goes numb it feels like someone else is doing the interfering...:Wideyed:
Now you mention it, I didn't notice the clutch at all on the SDR. My SMT can feel heavy after a while, not as much as the SF but still noticeable. KTM must have sorted their clutches.

 

A bit like Porche and Ferrari I reckon. Germanic and industrial can't quite compete with red and Italian when it comes to drawing the crowds.
Other than its salty price its hard to fault the SDR though. Its a storming bike, well conceived and hellish fast. But leaving aside brand mystique and concentrating purely on the seat of the pants experience, the KTM hasn't quite got road-going charisma of the Ducati. That said, if there was no Streetfighter or the bureaucrats decided I wasn't allowed one, I'd have an SDR. I'm very glad it and the KTM mindset exists. They're a force for good in motorcycling and more manufacturers should be following their example.
I was talking to one of the sales guys at Crescent and he said rather gloomily that he wasn't sure what KTM were going to do with the RC8 sportsbike. It hadn't doen as well as they'd hoped. I reckon KTM will be missing a trick if they don't ditch the 1190 format and put the 1290 engine into the RC8. It wouldn't be eligible for racing, which goes against KTM's competitive grain, but so what? It would make a blistering road-only sports bike. Sportsbike geometry and riding position would allow that engine to be used to the full. It mightn't be quite as hot as a 1299 Pani but it might offer more accessible performance for a lot of riders and from the minimal development required it ought to be considerably cheaper.

 

KTM

 

I don't think the KTM is a bad bike. In fact I think its a great bike. There is great scope to uncork the SDR - it is seriously hamstrung by all the usual emission restriction garbage (owners on the Supertwins forum are getting 175+ wrbhp with the usual minor fettling/remapping.
For me the issue isn't about power. The problem I have with it and the reason the Streetfighter won the day is that it isn't clear what the SDR is supposed to be and that shows when you ride it. KTM don't do sports bikes. They've made a very decent stab at it with the RC8 but I don't think their heart is in it. Their pedigree is in off-roading and supermotos. The KTM is billed as a supernaked, but is it? A supernaked to me is just a new word for streetfighter, that is to say a pared-down sportsbike minus the bodywork with a road riding seating position: eg. the Ducati SF, the V4 Tuono and the S1000R. All sportsbikes at heart. You get sportsbike performance with sportsbike handling and braking. The KTM gives you sportsbike performance sure enough, but the rest of it is subtly disguised supermoto and I'm not sure that mix works. Supermotos aren't intended for high speed. They're about lightness, housefly agility and aggression at sub 100 mph speeds. My SF makes more and more sense the faster you go. It begs to be ridden fast. It brings out the hooligan but you always feel you're the boss of it. The KTM dares you to go fast and you're not entirely sure who has the upper hand. It doesn't feel focused, that's the problem.
If I was buying a new KTM I'd actually prefer the 1190 A because that does feel focused and you can use every bit of it. I reckon the 1290 Adventure will turn out to be a better bike than the SDR because that's where KTM's heart is. Its the kind of bike they want to build, not the kind the accountants have told them they ought to be building.
For a proper KTM streetfighter someone will have to put a 1290 engine in an RC8 and crash it.