So, what started as a quick job on my 2010 Monster 1100 to stop the clutch growling on take up has become a bit of a puzzle. I did the main job of removing the clutch plates and blowing out the dust in the clutch housing etc. then thought I would check the various components for wear against the specs. And came up against the following little problem: All the friction plates are greater than the minimum 2.6mm thick and the total thickness of the clutch pack is 39.9mm, however, the stated minimum thicknessfor the pack is 46.1mm. But something is not right in the manual as the standard thickness for a friction plate is 3.0mm and the plain plates should be 1.5mm so with 8 friction plates (24mm) and 10 plain plates (15mm) that would give a maximum pack thickness of only 39mm, so where does the spec of 46.1 come from? My clutch has always rattled worse than a bag of spanners in a blender, which I hate, so I checked the tang-to-slot clearance on the plate/basket and it is waaaaaay over the 0.6mm stated in the manual. I could do the quiet clutch mod but as all the clutch plates are looking pretty ragged I’m thinking of replacing all the plates and the basket. I am assuming the standard Ducati parts will be over priced so can anyone recommend alternatives? I’m not looking for racing trickery or anything fancy, I just want a smooth consistent clutch action and longevity. One final question, I notice all of the plain plates have a small D shape cut out of the outside edge. The manual does not mention these, so what are they for, and is there some sort of alignment that needs to be done? So there you go folks, one post and three questions, any answers would be much appreciated. OK I’m off back to the garage to put it all back together so that its ready for me to retake my title of ‘slowest up the hill’ at Prescott next weekend!
Various members on this forum recommends lithium grease for growly clutch. I went different route and replaced curved (dished) steel plate in my clutch pack. My clutch was grabby and growl when moving from start in first gear. This has it fixed and is ok still after 6000 miles. The curved steel plate was no longer curved, but flat from clutch engagement. There is about 1mm curvature to the outer edge in comparison with inner edge, but seems to helped with problem The cost of curved plate is around £8, search on google for "Curved steel plate" or "Bombato" (italian) or "Bombirovana spojka pre ducati" in czech (there is cheap czech distributor with oem parts, PM me for info)
See if you can perform a search on this forum Stevie as this subject has been covered many times on here. There is a friction plate (plain steel plates won't fit) that was intended for a wet clutch Suzuki that many of us have used as a good replacement but I can't remember the exact model GS 650?
"One final question, I notice all of the plain plates have a small D shape cut out of the outside edge. The manual does not mention these, so what are they for, and is there some sort of alignment that needs to be done?" that needs to be rotated so it alignes with the triangle (arrow) on pressure clutch plate
If you want to put all the plates back exactly as you removed them then yes you can use the notches for a reference but no, this isn't something that needs to be done
^ I allways used to religiously do the even spacing thing years ago on a new clutch but if I'm chucking a half worn clutch back together I don't always bother and it's never ever made any difference (moo)
I found the Suzuki GS650 plates have tangs that are actually too close a fit in my aftermarket aluminium basket and when i first fitted them, I had terminal drag because as the clutch warmed up and expanded, the plates started to drag and then the extra heat resulting from the extra friction from that caused the plates to expand even more and they then jammed in the basket slots so hard the clutch wouldn't clear at all. Nightmare... I completely cured this by putting the old plates back in for all except the bottom two friction plates and the plan is to gradually replace them with new Suzuki ones at the bottom of the stack as the new ones I have already put in wear in enough to slide properly in the basket slots. (Incidentally, the Suzuki plates are rather nicely made with tangs that are actually fatter then the rest of the plate in order to give a larger bearing surface.) Mixing plates in this way is not a problem because I also have the quiet clutch mod. This mod has the effect of making the wear on the tangs an almost irrelevant problem because the tangs no longer oscillate within the basket slots. With the clutch lever pulled in, the tangs are still free to oscillate and the plates jangle away. However, as the drive is taken up, the tangs move against the driving side of the slots and are then held firmly in place by the friction plate at the bottom of the stack. That friction plate can't move because its tangs are jammed into the curved bottom of the slots in the clutch basket. So the free play that is such a problem without the quiet clutch mod is effectively no longer there and becomes pretty much irrelevant. May I suggest you just try re-ordering the plates, so you have a friction plate in first and see what it's like? I think you may well be very pleasantly surprised and even decide you don't need to replace your plates with their worn tangs because that wear is no longer a problem. Of course, your friction plates will still need to be replaced eventually but almost certainly because the friction material is worn rather than because the tangs are worn. My clutch is working superbly now. I am running a really low stack-height and the reduced pre-load on the clutch springs that results from this means I have a mega-light clutch lever. I have no slip whatsoever and no drag either. The clutch is so free that at rest, I can tap down from second into neutral just as easily as I can tap up from first. The lever is so light that I found myself using two fingers to operate it and I've never, ever done that before. AND it's quiet....
Thanks for all your coments and suggestions (apart from Mr AirCon, my cheek is still stinging from that slap! :Arghh. The growling on take up has been fixed by clearing out all the dust from the clutch with an air line. I have looked through a lot of previous posts (wow there is a lot of stuff about clutches) and I think I will try Old Riders sugestion of rearranging the plates to have a friction plate first after all its no cost and if it stops that rattling I will be so happy. I will let you know how it goes but it won't be till the weekend after next.
Just tried the quiet clutch mod suggested by Old Rider. Fantastic difference, so good that I might get a ventilated clutch cover again. I was going to post before and after audio files of the engine noise but I've just realised that you can't do audio files on here. I'm now going to order some new friction plates as the originals are a bit worn and when I replace them I'll round off the tabs on the bottom friction plate so it fits into the curves at the bottom of the basket. Thanks OR, a really effective modification.
That's excellent news Did the mod sort the growling as well as the rattling, I wonder? Not that I would expect it to particularly but if it did, that would be a real bonus. I'm going to be controversial again and suggest you don't get new plates. Firstly, I don't think you will see or feel any improvement in the clutch, so why waste your money? Secondly, I think it just might make it actually worse. Like you, I thought wow, what an improvement, let's make it even better with new plates. I had read about Suzuki pattern plates for a GS650, which were dead cheap and supposed to work really well but were designed for a wet clutch and some people had problems with them absorbing water and rusting to the plain plates. I had also read about the Lithium Grease mod, where you smear lithium grease onto the friction plates, wipe off the excess and bake them in the oven till the smoke stops.this is supposed to make the clutch all smooth and buttery, eliminating any grabbiness. So I though I'd try combining the two to stop the Suzuki plates absorbing water and get smooth and buttery AND quiet all at the same time. Initially, it really didn't work out. The clutch seemed fine at first but as soon as I got moving, the clutch developed serious drag, so serious the bike was pretty much unrideable. At first, I thought this was down to not allowing for the extra thickness of the new plates giving me excess stack height, so I reduced the stack height. No improvement seriously disheartened. When I came to dismantle it, it was still warm and I found I couldn't get the new friction plates out - they had expanded and were jamming into the basket slots, so it wasn't the stack height causing the problem after all, it was the longer tangs of the new plates. However, reducing the stack height gave me a real benefit which I discovered when I came to ride the bike after curing my problem. The cure was to put my knackered old plates back in!. However, I decided to mix them with the Suzuki plates, to get some benefit from having bought them. I figured that if I put Suzuki plates in at the top of the stack, they would still jam and still prevent the clutch from clearing, so I make put them at the bottom of the stack, still with the reduced stack height. So I had: Old friction plate with filed tangs to match curve at bottom of slots. Thin, dished plain plate. Suzuki friction plate. Thick plain plate Suzuki friction plate Thick plain plate Old friction plate Thick plain plate Old friction Thick plain Old friction Thick plain Old friction Thick plain Old friction Thin, dished plain plate Took it for a test ride - revelation! The clutch was now fantastic. No slip, no drag and it was so light I found myself using two fingers to change gear, entirely naturally - I just found myself doing it. Not only was there no drag, I found I could not only tap up into neutral from first at rest, I could also tap down into neutral from second just as easily. Never been able to do that before... The reason for the light lever has to be the very low stack height putting less preload on the clutch springs with the added benefit of allowing the clutch to clear beautifully. Anyway, I'm well pleased To go back to your new plates, I think the shorter tangs are now an actual benefit now you have the extra friction plate. When you pull the lever in the shorter tangs easily pass the wear ridges in your basket slots, new long tangs may not, necessitating a new basket. Also, the tangs have been hammered short, so have spread at the ends, giving a larger surface area contacting the basket, therefore wearing the basket less. Without the extra friction plate, worn, hammered tangs are a liability and the more they wear, the faster they wear in a vicious circle. The extra plate stops all of that and the wear virtually stops because as the drive starts to get taken up by the clutch, all the friction plate tangs move against the basket and are held there as the clutch locks, so little or no more hammering. The friction plates should now last as long as the friction material. I would recommend the open clutch cover. The clutch is still quiet with the lever released but when you pull it in, the open cover allows you to hear the plates jangling quite musically and that's a sound I do approve of. Sorry this has been quite so long...
I fixed the growling by blowing out the dust with an air line when I first checked the plates. I've already ordered some new friction plates as the friction material on my current plates has just about had it. I reckon that I'll add enough new plates to bring the pack up to the recommended thickness and arrange the plates to alternate between friction and plain. I can't see why it should matter where in the pack the dished plain plate is positioned but I'll put it in its current location. Actually, I don't know why a dished plate is needed, can anyone tell me?
It acts as a spring giving a gradual contact of the plates rather than a "light switch" all or nothing which is what you get without it
Does the dished plate had a small D stamped on it ? And if so does it point outward away from the engine or towards the engine as mine just looks kind of flat but it's the only one that looks slightly different to the rest sorry if you covered this before somewhere else but I'm following this thread as I'm doing this Suzuki plate mod and quiet clutch with new alloy plates with friction material and a new alloy basket with the steel outer banding
I think there might be a dot on it other than that I don't recall. The "dishing" is only slight but it's fairly easy to find it you just need a hard flat surface (our lasses' glass chopping board is ideal ) put them on one by one & press the outer edge, turn them over & press em again, the flat ones won't move but the dished one will flip up a bit. Orientation wise the outer edge should be further away from the motor than the inner edge.
Normally the 1.5mm dished plate has a dot punched into one of the tangs. I do not believe the orientation is critical although if you have 2, I'd put them facing each other with one friction plate between them. Andy
Thanks guys I will have a look tonight and see what I have exactly just don't want to mess this up Like the previous owner said he had new plates fitted but left 2 out and fitted them to an extremely worn basket and drum
