The 'Average Rider Review'. I would imagine there's quite a few people out there who are pondering whether to swap their 848, 1098 or 1198 for a Panigale, and as I was a few years ago asking themselves if the Panigale is any better?, is it worth it? Or should I just stick with what I've got?. We've all read the reviews of the so called 'experts' with varying opinions. For most including myself the bike will only the used as a toy to be taken out after work or at weekends for general riding and a quick blast. All the reviews I've read talk about how the bike handles under extreme riding when it's being pushed to the limit. I consider myself an average rider of average ability who rides only on the road, so how fast the bike can hit the apex or how it handles when accelerating at 11k rpm out of a corner isn't relevant to me or many other riders. I'm lucky enough to own both a 1098 and 1199, so I thought I'd write this review comparing them both side by side based on an average rider, riding in the real world. The bikes I own are the 1098S and 1199S models which I'll be comparing , both bikes are fitted with full Termignoni exhausts systems, and other than a few shinny add ons are standard. I haven't ridden the 848, 1198 or 899 so I can't comment on these bikes but I have owned a base model 1098. Looks and styling: Both bikes share the basic Ducati attributes that make them beautiful to look at. Which is best looking is purely down to personal opinion. The 1098 follows Ducati tradition with its trellis frame and under seat exhausts where as the frameless 1199 is more aggressive looking, more angular with the exhausts hanging from its belly. Side by side the 1098's top profile looks slightly fatter and curvier than the newer bike, not that the 1098 is a wide bike to start with!. Personally I can't decide which is the better looking, it's a bit like trying to decide between two super models. Comfort and Riding position: Neither bikes are comfortable. The standard seat on the 1199 is probably the most uncomfortable thing that doesn't have spikes that I've sat on. It only takes a few miles before your bums feeling it. The replacement comfort seat is at the top of most new owners shopping list. The riding position on the 1199 is better than the 1098. The handle bars are slightly higher and the seat position in relation to the bars is improved reducing the strain on your wrists. The riding position is still extreme on the 1199 as on the 1098, but that's to be expected of a sports bike. The tank on the 1199 isn't as steep as the 1098 which means your nuts (if you own some) really feel it when braking hard the taller tank on the 1098 means your abdomen absorbs most of it. If you thought having the exhausts on the belly of the bike would do away with having your behind cooked then think again the heat that is generated from the 'curly' pipe above the hugger on the 1199 can at times become quite uncomfortable, this is made worse by having the larger bore full system. It's your thighs that feel this more than your bum. The key is to keep the bike moving, when the airs flowing there's no real issue its when you hit traffic or have to stop the temperature rises. Engine: Start the 1199 and the first thing you notice is the lack of rattling. The 1199's wet clutch is silence to the ears. I've never really had an opinion about the sound but I can't say I miss the jangling - or having to explain to the non informed that it's supposed to sound like that and that the bikes not knackered!. With standard exhausts the 1199 is noticeably louder than the 1098. There's a good argument as to wether fitting Termi end cans to the 1199 purely for the sound effects is worth it. However to counteract the argument fitting Termis does improve power, torque and smooths the ride. By contrast fitting Termis to the 1098 produces a dramatic difference in sound and the full system even more so together with the much needed smoothing out of the power delivery at low revs. Handling: Both bikes handle well and feel well planted. The 1199 does feel lighter and less top heavy than the 1098, it turns quicker and is more flickable. It's interesting to note, remembering from when I had a base 1098 that the 1098S with ohlins suspension and the Marchesini light weight wheels feels like a different bike to the base 1098. The change of the two components over the standard transforms the handling. The brakes on both bikes are incredible the 1199 maybe has the edge due to the fact it has ABS which gives you more confidence to brake harder without as much risk of losing the front end. The suspension on the 1199 is hard, I'm 14 stone and have tried adjusting the electronic suspension and have got it the best I can but I can't say I'm really happy with it. I can understand why some owners have bought the base model 1199 with the standard suspension and upgraded to other makes of aftermarket suspension and shunned the electronic ohlins units on the 'S' model. The ohlins units on the 1098 which I've never touched since buying the bike are far better and give you more feedback and confidence. Riding at low revs has always been a challenge of all the Ducati superbikes. The fuelling on the 1098 at low revs is terrible. Balancing the throttle and clutch needs the precision of a surgeon and trying to find the 'sweet spot' in the rev range at traffic speed is near impossible and combined with the heavy clutch and it's not long before rider fatigue starts to set in. I've heard owners of 1199's who previously owned inline four bikes whining about how stuttery and hard work the 1199 is at low speed, they need to ride a 1098 for a few weeks then go back to the 1199. They will think they are in heaven. The 1199 is very civilised at low speed, the clutch is light and well balanced making riding in town or in traffic as easy as its going to get on a V twin. Performance: With the 1098 coming in at 160hp and the 1199 at 195, you would think the 1199 would be lethal considering the 1098 is definitely no slouch with 35hp less, but it's not as clean cut as that. The two bikes have very different engines and produce power in different ways. Neither are slow. The real brute power of the 1199 comes into play post 7k rpm when the power surges in and it just keeps accelerating hard and relentlessly like nothing I've ever experienced before. It's both thrilling and addictive but is more suited to the track that the road. Hit 7k rpm in third gear on the road and caught and you'll lose your licence. The 1199 does however lack the low/mid range grunt of the 1098 and doesn't feel to have the same torque delivery and lift when opening up the throttle in 3rd/4th gear. This makes the 1098 a more thrilling bike to ride at road speeds due to its effortless quick sprinting capabilities. Electronics: The 1199 is a revolution in electronic rider aids and intervention. Whether this is to be embraced is yet another matter of opinion. With adjustable ABS, engine braking, traction control, slipper clutch etc, the rider is overlooked by a management system at all times. Some could say it makes the bike idiot proof as it forgives the riders mistakes. This has to be good and I'd be lying if I said it hadn't saved my bacon in the past. The electronics aren't intrusive and you tend to forget they are watching over you and correcting your riding errors. This becomes most evident when I get back on the 1098 which has no rider aids and you ride it by the skin of your teeth and rely on your own judgment and discretion. The 1098 is more of a riders bike and I think requires more skill to ride well. So which is best?: That's the million dollar question and one I can't answer. They are both very good in different ways. I was careful at the beginning of this review to say 'swap' rather than 'upgrade' I don't believe swapping a 1098 for a 1199 is upgrading. I would advise anyone thinking of swapping to borrow a demo bike and try keeping it over a weekend and get to know thoroughly it before making any decisions. Newer isn't necessarily better. Remember this is a nice problem to have. Good luck.
Great review. After trying the 1299 and 899 I've decided to stick with my 848. What you wrote about the tank on the new bikes is spot on, I thought the same after test riding the 1299 and its enough for me to rule one out. BUT I would like to still try an 1199, just to see if it really is the handful people have said.
Great write up I own an 1198s with full termi system. I recently took a 1299 out on demo it felt a little boring compared to the 1198 as it just lacked that low down grunt. On a race track its probably a different story but on the road the 1198 is much more fun. So if it's road miles your doing my opinion is the 1198 1098 is the better option. The down side of the 1098 1198 is belts and valve clearance.
The 1199 is a fantastic bike but get the most out of it you've to ride it very fast which it does very easily. The best rides I've had on it have been at about 5am in the morning or later at night when the roads have been empty and I've blatantly ridden it at speeds at which I'd get locked up for nevermind just lose my licence. There's been quite a few times when I come home feeling a bit frustrated like I haven't had the most from the ride as all the excitement is up the top end. The 1098 however gives you the buzz at sub prison speeds mainly I think because of the lower down grunt. Acceleration is where the thrill is but speed is the side effect of acceleration. I do think the 1098 gives a more exciting road ride. Even though it's a bit tetchy at low speeds it quickly whips up power and the midrange pull never fails to put a big grin on your face and the noise from those Termis under hard acceleration can't be beaten.
I look at the Panigale and wonder if it was painted in Suzuki colours, would anybody give it a second glance. It's a nice bike, but I don't have the urge for one in my life. I do like the dash on the 1199 though. I think the 1098 is unmistakably a Ducati. Although I am biased and have had a drink. :Woot:
Good write up, thanks. Interested to hear what those think who have had a 848 evo then bought a 899. I did but I had a Daytona 675 in between so some details are missed. I would say for me that the things I couldn't live with on the 848 are fixed on the 899. You are correct though by saying the Panigale is a different beast engine wise, it really is! I think the 899 is positively 2-stroke like, a,though it does still have mid range, just not that swell that the 848 evo had (and some say that had none compared to the 848! ;-)
...people ask me how I'm getting on with my 1199, all knowing I broke my 1098 and had gone for the later model as a replacement. All I can say to them is "I don't know" Can't quite put my finger on it! It's a completely different ride, yet still a Ducati ride. I miss the rattle, the low-down grunt and the look of the 1098. I don't miss the power delivery of either On or Off! or the maintenance costs. Still trying to work it out... One thing thou...try to keep it red-lined up to 3rd gear! Pulls ya arms off and your doing over a ton and a quarter :Yawn:
I think you've hit the nail on the head. After two years of ownership I still don't know. Originally I owned a base model 1098 which I had for three years and loved it but I got the itch when the 1199 was launched. Once there was a reasonable second hand market I swapped. Initially I thought the 1199 was fantastic as I still do now but once the honeymoon period was over I found myself thinking about my old 1098 and how I missed it. I'm not sure why as this has never happened before when changing bikes, I've always been of the opinion that I'd moved up and on. So the fact I was thinking backwards maybe tells you something. Back in January I bit the bullet and bought a good 1098S. It felt great to be back on the older bike but have to admit I'd forgotten how grumbly they are. I think the 1199 may have made me bit soft!. I tend to drift between the two, which one I take usually depends on the journey. The 1199 is well behaved all round so if I'm going into town or know I'm going to encounter traffic and low speeds I'll take that as its easier than fighting with the 1098. If I'm going for a quick blast after work when the roads are empty I'll take either but the 1098 is more suited as it likes to go at its own pace and not be held back.
...to be honest, that's way I went back to 'Wheelie School' Power delivery is just so different:Asshat:
Interesting reading your experiences chaps. It does make me wonder where Ducati go from here. The new bikes are technically amazing but they've lost some charm and character. If Ducati continue along the same path there will be little difference between them and a jap bike, and what will be the point of having one. At a recent track day there was a 916. Everyone's head turned when it left the paddock each session, it sounded incredible on track and there was a general aura about it. The 1x98 series still had a good chunk of that about them imo.
I agree. I do wonder which path Ducati will take especially now the Germans are in charge. I understand a company has to develop and move forward to stay ahead and profitable but it would be a shame if the bikes became sterile in appeal as I do think with all the electronic intervention the 1199 has slightly diluted the experience for me in the respect of it being a true riders bike. The 848 1098 and 1198 are the last of the traditional Ducati's in my opinion. Whether they manage to maintain the appeal at the same time as moving forward will remain to be seen.
They could, and should expand their mass appeal bikes, like the scrambler, monster etc and maintain the premium brand, something they are good at doing. But no reason they can't keep the superbikes as pure and involving experiences, rather than just pose machines.
I sold my 999 about a year ago as I was after a bit more power, I went on the look out for an 1198. Ducati Leeds had 2 on the showroom floor, parked next to an 1199, although my budget couldn't really stretch to 1199 prices I just had to have it due to the sheer beauty of it. Thanks to a large loan I have now had the 1199 for a year and done about 3000 miles as an average rider. The one thing it misses is the low down torque, otherwise still love the look and sound of it. Once the loan is paid off in 2 years time I will be on the look out for an 1198 to park next to my 1199 so I have the best of both worlds .
