Hi all, About to replace the biblical times back boiler in our house and thought I'd see what the collective wisdom of the forum thought. Currently have a quote for an Atag combi, but where me and the guy differ is in our views of smart thermostat systems. I'm all for a smart system such as Nest or Hive 2. He is really pushing the manufacturers Atag One system. I'm currently in favour of the Nest system. On paper the Hive 2 looks good but the app is awful and Nest will do the same job and looks far more polished. Anyone have any real world experience of either of these? His argument is that the Atag One communicates 2 ways with the boiler, in a way that only the manufacturers product can. It will give you servicing stats, weather compensation & timers etc... It also communicates with him regarding servicing stats and diagnostic data. He is saying that any third party system simply has on/off control over the boiler. What's really putting me off is the fact that the controller is hard wired where the existing thermostat is. Because it has a sensor to detect wether or not you are in the house (simple movement), the position the thermostat is in will be awful (under the stairs). I know the wiring can be moved, but we've recently wallpapered so hiding the wiring is a no go. The other systems can be moved anywhere as they don't rely on the wires and the home/away detection can be done via mobile phone location. Much better.
We had a combo for years and suffered a shower that lacked power and would scald you if someone in the house thought about turning the tap on, the washing machine and dishwasher were also a no no. I went for a good old fashioned boiler with a hot water tank and 100 ltr of cold water in the loft, its sheer bliss. We have a pumped shower that could rival my Karcher if the pressure wasn't turned down, I go to hotels and am yet to find a better shower (some are as good, but not better) plus the mrs and kids can do what they like and it doesn't effect my shower. Also anyone that stays with us comments on what a great shower they had. Everyone tried to talk me out of it from friends to people doing quotes, I think Combi boilers are like the Emperors new clothes (everyone knowns they are crap but won't say) Anyways, my one luxury is a decent shower so my recommendation would be to go down the conventional boiler with a hot water tank route (you can have an emergency immersions heater as well - we haven't used ours yet though in 5 plus year I am sure that many will disagree with this but it has been my experience, but whatever you do make sure that your water pressure is up to a combo boiler.
Guys coming to test our pressure. We're getting a bigger combi than we need so no issues with multiple hot water requests. The back boiler we currently have is too old, they're not allowed them in new installations and they are hideous. It's more the smart thermostat things I needed advice on.
I had a google for you and found @El Toro and @johnv talking about boilers :Wideyed: must be a few years ago though John looks much younger! Dutch combi boilers | AVForums
My question would be Why ? Why do you need a "smart" system ? What is the matter with a timer that you can over ride and a thermostat you can alter ? It sounds like marginal gains for increased complexity. Which have just done a test of boilers and Worcester Bosch and Vaillant come out tops.
My mate is a Gas Safe plumber (self employed) and he will not fit any other boiler than Worcester Bosch, from experience all the other brands cost him more in time and breakdowns - he does however ride a Ducati :Hilarious:
A timer only works if you yourself follow a strict timeline. I try to not be that predictable in case "they" get me :Nailbiting:. Our days are varied, my wife and I can be home anywhere from 1545-1900 (she's a teacher & I work in London), even later if we get out of work and decide to go out to eat. A timer can result in you wasting energy by heating an empty house. With a smart system, it will know wether or not you are in the house and when you are on your way home. It can get the house hot for you based on ETA. It's not really increased complexity as far as the boiler is concerned as it is only a couple of wires that have no bearing on the boilers operation (other than off/on). You could disconnect and still use the boilers controls should the smart system fail for whatever reason. A timer also can't compensate for outside weather. A smart system can also activate the heating should the temperature reach a level that would cause the pipes to freeze. Savings are around 15% on smart systems, so worth it.
This ATAG are just in the UK. They only supply to Gas Safe engineers so you know you wont get some charlatan. In Europe, they have won various boiler efficiency & reliability awards for the last 6 years running. Now they're in the UK, i'm happy to have their boilers.
I would agree with worcester Bosch I had an old one in my house it must have been 25 years old with the water tank by the side took two of them to get it out It was serviced regularly and never missed a beat In my new house years ago we had a combi boiler with a huge water tank in airing cupboard It fed three bathrooms all with power showers and a washing machine and dishwasher and 4 toilets You could run water anywhere in the house and it never affected the shower or anything else Had a thermostat on wall which looked after it's self It was the only thing that didn't need snagging Can't remember the make
Bought a NEST thermostat and fitted it and the Heat Link today. It was quite simple and took about 2 hours as I hate visible wires and fished cables in behind walls. A little bit of plastering and painting required tomorrow to finish off It's an impressive bit of kit and a doddle to use.
That's what we've got. Also got Nest Protect alarms all over the house. Sad but I got really excited when the missus cooked and burnt something the other day as I got to see them in action. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I've already got mains powered smoke alarms, so hadn't thought about going with the NEST alarms. Are they wireless like the thermostat control?
You have two options, mains or battery. I have mains. The alert you through the Nest app and give you 10 seconds to silence the alarm if it's just cooking or something. Also does carbon monoxide. They connect wirelessly to your router though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have got a smart system - cost me nothing and works really well. If the house is cold - I turn the heating on. If it is hot - I turn it off. :wink:
The idea of these is to prevent those situations where people just live off the timer and you end up heating an empty house when your schedule changes etc... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I plan to go for Heat Genius after doing a lot of research. Worth looking at what suits your home and it does have a portable thermostat. I like the ability to control room thermostats to suit our varying needs depending on who is home and when.... 12 best smart heating systems 2017 UK: Best smart thermostats - PC Advisor
Yes, but I'm not heating an empty house - I would have to be in the house to know if it was hot or cold, wouldn't I? If I am out and come home to a cold house - I just turn the heating on. If the house is warm when I get in, I don't turn the heating on.
I'm referring to the large percentage that set their timer and never touch it again. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Maybe........but as you are aware of that issue and you have shifting schedules, you are knowledgeable enough to turn the timer off and do what I do......... ...........you don't need to buy another fancy gadget to do it for you. An acquaintance of mine has something similar to what you seem to be investigating - he has a small-ish house and works from home. I can't believe it when I see him use his phone linked to a wireless base station to turn the heating on, up or down when he is sitting down in his room - the damn radiator is 4.0m from him on the opposite wall - so all he has to do is walk over to it and use the rad thermostat. He doesn't have to move far to do the same with the other rads or the boiler.
