'harder' To Ride ? Ducatis, Compared To Jap Bikes.

Is it heavier? what are you comparing it to?? Perhaps you are mixing up stability in the corner and thus not so quick to turn with the bike feeling heavy. The older Ducatis seem to be built that way whereas the Panigales turn very quickly.

I can't comment authoritatively on the 848 but certainly with the Panigale you have to learn to ride it differently to the Jap bikes which takes a while before it really works. If you dont want to put the time in dealing with that stuff then you are probably better off on a Fireblade or GSXR that you can just go quick on without having to think about it too much. I'm assuming you're not a Ninja so a second or so is not really that big a deal.

It sounds more like you are just not clicking with the bike yet and able to get 'in the zone' riding at you and the bikes limit? If you're used to point and squirt riding on a Blade or GSXR then it's going to take some time to adjust to running more corner speed instead on the Ducati?

 

They are more mentally draining to ride, no question! My Daytona could send me to sleep it was so buttery smooth, the feeling in town for example, 7-10 mph off the clutch in 1st, just ticking along, the ducati is still a case of slipping the clutch, even with the panigale being as good as it is, it's not 'easy'. The panigale compared to the 848 though, it really is a big step forwards in terms of usability, even after the remap and 14t sprocket my 848 would shake the mirrors and screen and stutter at less than 3k revs, u would ride it in 1st gear. And yes the steering was 'heavier' in feel.

Ducati's have always responded to input though, it's what makes them exciting, but u can't have it all!!!

Like the old saying, u want a lady out of the bedroom and a ......

 

I'd agree with all the above comments tbh.

Around town I find my 899 a pain the arse compared to the cbr I had previously.

They are very rewarding though when you "understand them" though.

 

I think you have answered many of your questions yourself.
If it's about chasing track times, you may want to change bikes. If it's about fun on track, you may not want to.

I am convinced that Jap bikes are by and large easier to ride but they are consequently a bit less rewarding to ride.

I remember going for a ride with 3 friends who had a Fireblade, a Fazer, and a new Triumph Tiger. During the ride, we swapped all the bikes, so that I had ridden the 3 others before getting back on my 999. Getting back to the 999 was weird. It was like sitting on an explosive shell. It felt long and low and didn't want to turn easily - strangely solid. It also had far more bottom end. It was really quite disconcerting for about 2 miles, then how to ride it came flooding back (as it would after about 25k miles riding the thing). The 999 was less comfy, but it had better feedback. Turning in was harder, but once in, it stuck like glue to the line.

Obviously you won't have the problem on track that Ducati sportbikes don't like pussy-footing around. They like being ridden hard with real commitment everywhere. They are useless at pootling about.

I think my experience is typical of most Ducati riders' experiences. You can see more of it in the 1199 vs 1098 thread. Ducatis have their qualities and their faults and you seem to be aware of both. What side of the fence you come down on really depends on you personally. Maybe an 899 would give you the best of both worlds.

 

I loved my 848 on track. You don't have to worry too much about staying in the high revs as the torque will do the work. I find that on a Ducati, you don't get that Jap frantic, rev happy feeling. Everything is calmer and more sedate, yet you're just as quick (or quicker due to being smoother) when you check out the times/speedo.

1098 suffered from slow turn in but the 848 was different, mine handled far better than all the jap bikes i've ever had. The only problem I had on the 848 was the clearance of the standard rearsets.

 

Do you have another Ducati that you use on the road?
In reading your initial message it seems you already have the thoughts that Jappers may be a better fit for you on the track....

 

I agree with the above comment, I did a trackday at Mallory last month, admittedly on my 748R engined 748S (so it's not an 848!) but I loved it. I had to adapt my style of riding a bit but found the odd bit of short shifting and using the torque to pull the bike was better, for me at least, instead of revving it harder as I tended to do on some tracks.

In fact I dropped back from my 998 which I was using on track to a 748 because I was overreving it too much and not using the torque properly, whereas the 748 has offered the right combination of revability and torque. I rode a Honda 600RR on the track once and it screamed like hell and was very twitchy. It was not my thing at all despite coming from a very strong two stroke background and having raced several TZ250's and long distance 250 production bikes way back in the past.

I guess you would need to think long and hard before you make a decision.

 

Get your suspension set up correctly for you and try a days tuition with someone like nemomoto, it made a huge difference to me.

 

But you're complaining about being slower on the Ducati ?

 

Fair enough, my issue was that I was making loads of small mistakes which was ruining my experience of track days. Nemo helped me rebuild my technique so I was smoother and happier on the bike. Was I faster afterwards? Yes but my reason for the tuition wasn't to get faster if you know what I mean...

 

Don't ride Mallory again.

 

I've felt like I've been permanently at my tyre limits for the last few track days and couldn't understand why things were getting more and more lairy everytime I tried to get faster, including chucking it in the gravel at Rockingham. I decided to get half a days tuition with the Supersport rider Andrew Pitt at Almeria a few weeks ago and he stopped me after two laps to say that I was cruising for a crash due to the way I was riding. In a single session he made my riding so much safer with the same lap times I felt silly that I had not done some tuition earlier in the week. It made a massive difference and now I have a whole load of very obvious extra time that I can make up without even pushing as hard as I was previously.

 

Trackday tuition isn't about getting faster, it's about understanding the circuit. Inevitably you will be quicker but you are still in your comfort zone. I spent 6 sessions with Niall McKensie at Cartagena and managed to chop 7 seconds off my prevoius best lap whilst still riding in my comfort zone. The constructive and positive feedback from a very experienced rider gave my confidence a huge boost especially as he understood exactly what I wanted. I came away a much more confident rider and when I put into action what I had been shown, was lapping consistently within 1.5 seconds. The other issue is what works at one circuit isn't necessarily going to work at another. It might be something as simple as a tyre pressure change but that's half the fun, trying settings to get the feel. I think I'd persevere with the 848 if it has only been the one circuit that you felt you couldn't get right. Girlfriends tracks a sewing machine and revving to 14000 scares me . Andy