May I strongly recommend reading The God Delusion? It is a superb piece of work, and one of the most seminal and influential books of modern times. We are lucky indeed to be around in the same era in the same country, and to be able to hear Richard Dawkins in person. Richard is continually showered with nonsense, bullshit and abuse, and under the circumstances it is amazing to see how patient and humorous he is.
Johnv, that is a good point, my post was towards those individuals who have come here within say the last 50 years who seem hell bent on changing our country to fit in with theirs! If their country was so good why the hell come here! Stay there, live your life under your laws/religion and leave us alone!
I do have it on my Kindle but have several books queued up at the moment and ordered two more from Abebooks today. I will move it higher on the list !
Archer in principal agree with you. However do not think that rules of another country should be dismissed because they are not from UK. Some countries have sorted certain aspects of their law\society better\farer. For me perfect example is uk road tax, same car will pay same amount in road tax. One does 1000 miles a year so minimal damage one 40000 as he is professional driver. Creates much more wear on roads. How come both have to pay the same? Many countries have road tax in petrol, you buy it you pay it foreigner or not. If you ask me better solution however choice still needs to belong to UK side and if after you do not like it feel free to go.
Lucazade, there is no doubt that we could learn a lot from other countries laws, however, it should be up to us to vote into Parliament, the party that are going to change the laws we want changed, not have a preacher inciting violence because we don't believe what he does!
That goes with out saying, offer ideas and let them vote. That is it. If it goes through good on you if not shut up and deal with it or leave. I would go step further if you are in uk over 3y it becomes compulsory for you to learn English and pass gov exam. It is like that in many countries.
Take a look at Christopher Hitchens views on religion, he offers a very strong argument that it's a toxic influence? Christopher Hitchens -- Religion - YouTube
So its seems, surprisingly. I would have assumed Ducati owners would include the usual proportion of religious believers, fanatical nutcases, etc and it is pleasing and reassuring to find that forum members appear to be rather more rational and sensible than the national average.
Pete I think reason is simple (be warned I am oversimplifying it now). Religion is used by average masses to feel in a void or help with fears, when lost. Few at the top exploit that to their own means. I think motorbikes or in fact any hobby does the same for average masses but there is limited if any window for someone to exploit it. Look here how many people said when they go for a ride it is time for them not their troubles all that is left behind. I myself many times went for a pointless cruise just to relax and have time off.
All religions are just human contrivance for recognising and paying homage to the almighty power of Mother Nature. Some are benign and adopted by people who mean well. Others are twisted and manipulated by people who seek power and control. For mankind to claim to know in any way the almighty power that has led us to existence is nothing short of foolish and naieve. We are here because Mother Nature has put us here and when she sees fit to end our existence then all that we have learned, worshipped and constructed will be gone. I think I may have been a Druid in a past life!!!
hmmm some odd quotes ...'religion is a killer' sorry but thats BS. religion is not the killer it is mostly down to interpretation, Sharia law generally does not occur in moderate Islamic society, it occurs because the educated mind bend the un educated I have lived with and amongst muslims since 2003 in the major conflict zones across the world from Afghan to Libya and Somalia and have had first hand experience of both the moderate and the extreme Islamic faith. I have had discussions with senior Muslim officials telling me 'be careful, you let too many into your country' and the worry is that its too late to be careful now we simply have to be ready. I know of Muslims who sin as much if not more than the average westerner but repent every Friday, the main prayer day of the week. Not unlike some good Roman Catholics.... religion is not to blame, the people who bend and twist the scriptures for their own gains are to blame, the Mullahs who initiate young Muslim teenager boys in to their rank and file by sodomising them, the drug trade run by the Kurdish Workers Party, the prostitution houses ran by Al Qaeda in Baghdad and other places....thats NOT religion just some whacked out loonies pretending Allah came to them in a vision..now thats BS Us Europeans are doomed, in another 20 years you will see a European country, say Sweden, have a majority Muslim population, the UK may well have a Muslim PM and maybe your daughters or grand daughters will be wearing the burkha they are coming and in their droves, its the fastest growing religion on the planet... but what do I know only IMHO
Just sat watching 'The Life of Brian' again. My religion requires me to watch it at least twice a year and to make a pilgrimage to a cinema to see it once in my life. I am a truly Pious Python!! How blessed are the Cheesemakers....:tongue:
Absolutely , nothing to do with religion the buried 105mm shell that torn my mate to pieces in the name of Allah absolutely nothing no connection whatsoever ......... Same goes for everyone killed in northern Ireland ...... Not even remotely connected to a proddy / cath dispute .... Nope clearly all for fun ...... The crusades ? Millions of sand jumpers killed in the name of god ..... But not any religious connection ............ Err sorry I don't believe you , I'd ask my mate for His opinion but they couldn't find enough of him to comment
as a confirmed life long anit-theist i have no time for organised relions of any description. this isnt based on prejudice, just on the appalling track record of all religions to do anything meaningful since approximately 4500bc (about 1000 yrs before the earth built if you believe the bible...whichever of the 1000 or so different versions of the bible you read and the 30,000 or so different demoninations of christianity you may follow. if anyone has any real interest on this subject, which sadly i have, i would strongly recommend The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins, God is not Great by Christopher Hitchens, Breaking the Spell by Daniel Dennett or The End of Faith by Sam Harris. These men are known in religious circles as 'The Four Horsemen'!! haha...however, they are all extremely intelligent men who put forward clear arguments based on historical and scientific fact based on empirical evidence. As Martin Luther King (a man surrounded by atheist supporters incidentally) once said... "Reason and logic are the enemies of religion"....you cant argue with that..the fact that such a great man used the same text to emancipate people and struggle for equality as those religious zealots used to justify slavery and murder, speaks volumes about the stupidity, meaninglessness and hatred bound within such a vile publication.
One of my favorite books is 'The end of faith' by Sam Harris. ( A genuinely frightening book about terrorism, and the central role played by religion in justifying and rewarding it). Sam Harris has a lot of courage to put his head above the parapet to repeatedly warn us all; despite constant death threats to himself and family, of the danger of organized religion, and it's threat to our very existence. He is a superb writer, and my favorite of the 'Four horsemen'. I agree with nearly all of what Richard Dawkins says, but find him slightly too pompous and arrogant. Christopher Hitchens was a highly intelligent man, and was a pleasure to see him destroying the ridiculous nonsense being perpetuated by those who held opposing views. I enjoyed God is not great, and also 'The portable atheist'. As Dawkins says " Read Sam Harris and wake up" Sam Harris Worth a watch if you are seriously interested in intelligent debate, is the material from the 'Intelligence squared ' debates that are available to watch on U tube Here is an example : A debate about if Islam is a religion of peace. '
One of my favorite books is 'The end of faith' by Sam Harris. ( A genuinely frightening book about terrorism, and the central role played by religion in justifying and rewarding it). Sam Harris has a lot of courage to put his head above the parapet to repeatedly warn us all; despite constant death threats to himself and family, of the danger of organized religion, and it's threat to our very existence. He is a superb writer, and my favorite of the 'Four horsemen'. I agree with nearly all of what Richard Dawkins says, but find him slightly too pompous and arrogant. Christopher Hitchens was a highly intelligent man, and was a pleasure to see him destroying the ridiculous nonsense being perpetuated by those who held opposing views. I enjoyed God is not great, and also 'The portable atheist'. As Dawkins says " Read Sam Harris and wake up" Sam Harris Worth a watch if you are seriously interested in intelligent debate, is the material from the 'Intelligence squared ' debates that are available to watch on U tube Here is an example : A debate about if Islam is a religion of peace. Debate: Islam is a Religion of Peace - YouTube '
