And yet, if it were not for WSS and WSB, many of us would not be running about on SPs SPSs or Rs....... so with the new rules, are you going to be able to buy a MOTOGP rep? Am ignoring the D16 as it was a one off, rather than a standard part of the Ducati line up.
If WSB uses off the forecourt bikes, there'll soon be some pretty special superbikes on offer, never mind motogp reps.
WSB When it was run under the old rules..............!! Remember the RC30, OW01, yzf750sp Ducati SP2 SP3 SP4 SP5 SPS ... 916sps and so on Kwack zxr750rrrr all specials but a unit of bikes had to be made for public to buy from a dealer. I wonder if we can buy the 1198 factory special ? Blade ? BMW ?
Derek, thats the point mate, Do you really think Ducatis 1198 they race is anywhere near the spec of a over the counter 1198r ?
My two'penneth, WSB early 90's definitely up there as the golden era, and none of the bikes were burdend with space shuttle electronics, as for moto gp trickle down tech, it does'nt scan really. Honda Fireblade has none. Sad fact is only Honda can afford the present arms race to keep making prototypes in moto gp.
It does, but maybe not in the way you expect. Your next commuter ain't gonna have a banshee 4-cylinder engine with 300 horsepower, but it'll have far better suspension than a decade ago. Performance has only been dented by eurocrats, but it's still a step up from the previous best. Be thankful.
The biggest tech to trickle down is tyres, electronics need lots of rework for us mere mortals. Back to the original point, they won't merge the two series it'll lose revenue, TV and bums on seats so it will have to remain. I agree the formats may change probably more in WSB to make it more production based, keep motogp as the blue ribbon class but I would imagine further tweaks to bring closer racing, spec ecu's being the current point under discussion. CRT well it will evolve in essence Ducati are nearly there with their GP bike as a CRT model also so maybe they are playing the long game?
Agreed, I don't want to appear a technophobe, just bugs me that big H insists on the prototype raison d'etre being in moto gp, it's killing the blue ribbon class of racing.
I think the problem is with MotoGP, not WSB. There's no tyre competition anymore (maybe a good thing) so we're relying on one manufacturer to develop new tyre tech without having it tested against other manufacturers in a competitive racing situation. Even the electronics are being toned down now and they're talking about a 'one ECU' rule so that will reduce the need to develop new ideas there. So what new developments are going to come from GP that you couldn't get from WSB? Chassis and engine are the only areas where improvements can be made. The main advantage GP has is they can try new ideas without having to homologate first, maybe they should relax the homologation rules in WSB a little but then this brings us back to the OP, WSB would become a hybrid prototype GP/WSB series and Superstock would be the homologated, road version of the 'new tech' developed in the premier class.
So much sense for a change.... WSB leave as is, or maybe adopt the dreaded 6 round shoot-out from BSB Moto GP has to be proto-type and should be open tyres rules, so competition is between more than the bike maker, then we all benefit, and incentives for teams to join whether its help with sponsorship, cheaper satellite costs, a series within a series (better then the CRT stuff) maybe additional in-race coeverage (think F1 where you can follow different drivers and teams during the race) which will help mid pack racers as they can get air-time while the front guys disappear
I can't agree with that. The reason there's no-one on the grid is because no-one can afford to race in GPs. Put 30 bikes on the grid and, no matter what state of tune they're in, you will have some quality action. Speed is not an issue at all, check moto2 out for proof of that. If you start with a production engine and chassis, and state that the crankcases and frame spars must remain standard, you negate a huge amount of money straight away that smaller teams cannot hope to raise and development they cannot hope to compete against. It also makes life cheaper for the factories, so more would (hopefully) get involved and more may be tempted to punt out customer bikes. More bikes on the grid = better racing. The by-product of starting with production kit also means that any tuning work to either engine or chassis trickles down to roadbikes much faster. And as I said before, WSB is supposed to be an arena for the manufacturers to show their wares, but current WSB bikes bear little or no relation to the bikes you or I buy in the shops. So bring the bikes closer to standard spec. The factories spend less money on racing and privateers stand a better chance of competing. Again it equals more bikes on the grid and closer, better racing. Then give the manufacturers a place to showpiece their collective power with a prototype-only series. Like motogp currently, the privateer teams will have no chance of competing at any decent level in this class, so let motogp grow with production ready kit and leave the prototypes to the big money mob to fight among themselves.
Guess when I say non-production I consider Moto 2 and 3 in the same mould, except that you have motors and chasis with GP. But I firmly believe F1 and GP have aided a lot in what I choose to ride today, and should be seen as part of R&D not just something done for a bit of money (ala Dorna). How many of the chassis builders actually sell their wares outside of the paddock? Or how much do the engine developments filter into mainstream bikes? sure the grids arent full, but why make another me-too proposition to WSBK?! Its not just the cost, its the comeptitiveness level and that it seems one or two run away with it. Imo thats what also reduces sponsors
The cost is what's causing one or two to run away with it. No-one can come close to competing with Yamaha and Honda. Get rid of motogp and the manufacturers will pump all their resources into WSB, and that will go the same way. Cost is the main point here, and reducing costs will make both motogp and WSB more competitive. But whatever happens it won't change things overnight, these things take time.
I think yamaha and honda had to make race budget cuts.. Hence why honda and yamaha dont have factory teams in WSB. Like i posted before. The good old days were the best when you could buy a 500cc grand prix bike and go racing. Lots of private teams binned the jap chassis and fitted harris etc frames. It was harris who designed the delta box not yamaha!
Cal and Dovi seem to be doing ok on the 2nd tier, whether that is because tech 3 bikes are actually factory or they are as good as the front couple and over ride the bikes. I think the cost thing can only be solved by improving the spectacle, there is no less money imho than there was for the front 10 but the rest of the grid cant justify to the backers there is much in it for them So the balance is show versus research. I'm not convinced watering down the class to use more prodcution based models is the way forward but hell, its helped Moto 2 and if it gives a new lease of life for a few years why not give it a go....
In real terms Steve what was the cost difference? Bet the big teams spent equivalent to millions so why did the smaller teams come out and race?
I think restricting them on engine cost and electronics alone will bunch them up. Maybe production based engines and electronics will do it.
no idea on cost paul but the wsb grid this year is very small with some pulling out as they have run out of funds.
