The first bit of your post is precisely the case. The second bit is unproven. It might be right, and it might be unnecessarily pessimistic. "Industry would be wiped out" for example. A bit dramatic, no? As with anything, there would be opportunities that would arise. Companies would appear to fill any gaps in the domestic market. Brits might do more home consumption. If you go to Germany (and I know you have!) you will find the roads stuffed with German cars. If you go to France, they are stuffed with French cars. If you go to Britain, they are stuffed with German and French cars. There's a lot of scope for Britain to produce cars for home consumption. And that's just one example. Maybe (who knows?) Britain will go back to making a few things again, instead of a people hanging on the phone and watching computer screens. I don't know. But then, neither do you.
Just to remind you, we are still in the EU today and will go on being in the EU for two years or more. Of course the world hasn't ended since 24 June. To what extent will "the world end" (which presumably is code for "severe economic difficulties for the UK") after Brexit - that is the question. A vast number of decisions have to be made by public and private bodies in UK and elsewhere. Only a tiny number of those decisions have manifested in the past four days. Many more will be made over the next two years, and many more again in the years after that. Some of those decisions will take years or decades to reveal their full consequences. For sure everyone will go into damage limitation mode, and will do everything they can think of to mitigate harm. At present it is totally unclear whether UK will be in the single market or not so naturally lots of decisions will be postponed for now, maybe for years. As for the price being less, if the UK's GDP is lower it follows that 1% of it will be a lower figure so you may be right there.
There is zero chance of the EU backing down on allowing access to the free market without free movement of EU citizens. If they do Norway and Switzerland will demand the same. I would guess many of the multi national companies in London will expect it too.
glid, did you notice "farage shouting Scotland can fuck off" at the end of alyn smiths plea yesterday? was he talking for a nation or being a nationalist?. national v's nationalist. nasty. shame he had to be the recognized face of brexit. the mans a bam with no plan. anyhoo.
Absolutely, the issue for me has always been sovereignty and the fact that the unstable Euro will in all probability require the creation of the United States of Europe in order to prevent it's collapse. Even immigration is not a major issue for me with the proviso that we must stop offering a safety net to those who chose to come here with appropriate skills. But there is this nagging doubt in me that we are fighting the last war ...
Thatch Mk2 may indeed be talking to someone now ... but are they listening? You of all people should know the difference, finm :Angelic:
eh? :smileys: dont be part of the ministry of misinformation loz. my ear trumpet is functioning correctly
If in the meantime a number of other EU states can make it perfectly clear that the federalist model is unacceptable maybe we can roll back the EU to a trading alliance. However that flies in the face of an increasingly globalised world and leaves the Euro in an unsustainable position in that it continues to beggar parts of the EU such as Greece, Spain etc who are trapped, admittedly by their own profligacy, with crumbling economies. They need either the EU superstate with a transference of wealth from Germany, who doesn't give any impression that are prepared to go along with that, or they need to leave the Euro, effectively devalue and trade their way out of their mess.
The Forum has some functions that may be of help for you, Rob. I've highlighted what you need below: Just select "Ignore Thread" at the top of any page of the thread you wish to ignore. Three options appear - usually all you need is do is "Ignore this thread on New Posts" and it won't appear on your New Posts search. Alternatively, select "Thread List" to stop it appearing when you browse the Sub-forums. This is much more useful than asking for a thread to be closed because you are bored with it. In my opinion.
It seems that Switzerland has recently had a referendum and voted to end freedom of movement and, as a result, they are soon to lose access to the single market. They can't have their cake and eat it. If they can't, we can't.
Greece should never have been allowed to join the Euro and it's highly debatable whether Italy and Spain should have.
Cheers Loz I was being tounge in cheek, I don't put threads pr posters on ignore. I'll simply skip over the / their content if this is how I feel. But, it's a bit like car crash TV and difficult to ignore. It's the same people saying the same things they were weeks ago and I am finding it tedious. There is nothing new coming out, just polar opinions and it's now seemingly moved onto Scotland vs England with lots of churlish name calling. The debate has mostly dissapeared. Oh and by the way. I was replying to a question @El Toro asked about closing the thread :Watching: rather than me "asking for it"
A little bit late to say that about Italy.... "In 1957, Belgium, France, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands and West Germany signed the Treaty of Rome, which created the European Economic Community (EEC) and established a customs union".
The following timeline illustrates the integration that has led to the formation of the present union, in terms of structural development driven by international treaties: Signed In force Document 1948 1948 Brussels Treaty 1951 1952 Paris Treaty 1954 1955 Modified Brussels Treaty 1957 1958 Rome treaties 1965 1967 Merger Treaty 1975 N/A European Council conclusion 1985 1995 Schengen Treaty 1986 1987 Single European Act 1992 1993 Maastricht Treaty 1997 1999 Amsterdam Treaty 2001 2003 Nice Treaty 2007 2009 Lisbon Treaty Three pillars of the European Union: European Communities: European Atomic Energy Community (EURATOM) European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) Treaty expired in 2002 European Union (EU) European Economic Community (EEC) Schengen Rules European Community(EC) TREVI Justice and Home Affairs(JHA) Police and Judicial Co-operation in Criminal Matters (PJCC) European Political Cooperation (EPC) Common Foreign and Security Policy(CFSP) Unconsolidated bodies Western European Union (WEU) Treaty terminated in 2011
This is quite so. We did vote in February to limit immigration, and the EU immediately suspended all sorts of reciprocal arrangements and did indeed say that we couldn't have our cake and eat it. Since when, the problem has been completely ignored. The government hope it's going to go away and won't have to try to implement the will of the people. Problem is, that is how government works here: the people are sovereign and if they want to limit immigration, that trumps everything else. The EU also hopes the problem will go away. But of course, it won't. The UK is of course rather bigger than Switzerland and will have more clout in negotiations, but I still think that the EU will be extremely hard to budge on free movement of peoples. It's inflexible like that. If you're trying to create a federal state, then obviously free movement is one of the main tenets. It would be more interesting, it seems to me, to re-examine free movement. There could be limited free movement. There could be all sorts of things. But if there is no appetite to look at this problem... You'd really need a Danish exit - a Dexit, before the EU will start to seriously consider if free movement can't be toned down a little.
Absolutely, we need some other EU states to have their own referenda and also vote for change, then there just might be a chance of making some real progress.
Last night's news said there had been little take up from the banks, around three billion was mentioned.
