The City bet on Remain, which is why the £ was so strong before the result. That is billions of ££ pledged due to the opinions of the best experts in the land in terms of finance. But they got it wrong. It is true that many "experts" told us to remain, but they were not agenda-neutral. Those with the power to advise have done very well out of the EU. Why would I expect them to say anything other than "don't rock the boat"? This is exactly what I would have expected them to say. Obama comes and tells us to stay. In what universe would the Americans decide to share sovereignty with their poorer neighbours? So what credibility does he have in this? There were previous Chancellors on the Leave side. Dr. David Owen was on the Leave side. Dyson was on the Leave side. All "experts". What makes them any less credible? I regret the mendacity of both sides as regards the figures. But when I pointed this out at the time, your view (and I can't be bothered to trawl pages of thread to find it) was pretty much that reasoned debate was not how politics was conducted and that simple soundbites were all the electorate could understand. That view, at least, was shared by the communications "experts" of both camps, apparently.
Yes, that is my view about the way politics actually works. I didn't say that I like it, or approve of it, or am happy with it. I would prefer every voter to be rational, thoughtful, and well-informed, and each debate to be conducted on the basis of real facts and valid arguments. Sadly that is just a fantasy. It is not going to happen any time soon.
I don't know what universe you're in*, but in this one 13 American states decided to share sovereignty back in the 1780s and another 37 American states have joined them in sharing sovereignty during the past 200 years. Some of those states are much poorer than others, as it happens. And the Americans have gone much further in the direction of sharing sovereignty than any European states have done, or want to. Actually sharing sovereignty is what America is all about, and the Yanks are experts in that field with lots of credibility. How can you possibly imagine that Americans could be opposed to sharing sovereignty? * Maybe one in which 26 Swiss cantons don't share sovereignty?
I agree that the EU model is flawed but cannot agree that that the basics are beneficial to Europe as a whole. Free trade yes but free movement of labour , why ? That is as sensible as saying that my staff can go and work at my customers/suppliers premises and vice versa. Loads of Brits working in non EU countries too. For example the 2 children of a good friend. One is a chef working in Australia for the last 4 years, the other an English teacher in China. People with skills can get jobs anywhere that the skills are required. They pay their own health insurance etc and expect nothing from their hosts . There is a big difference between enjoying a holiday somewhere and allowing the population of that country free access to come and in live your home country in the same way that you can have a one night stand without wanting to get married to the lucky lady/gentleman/ladyboy. Delete as appropriate.
LOL Next, Pete will be arguing that sovereignty lies with individual households ... and thus all sovereignty is shared ... before disappearing inside his own navel. The argument that fifty States of the USA all share sovereignty is specious and dates back to a time from Pete's youth, around the turn of the 19th Century. The USA is increasingly governed directly by the Federal Government, with less and less real power held at the individual State level - a fact (yes, fact) which causes the Tea Party and many Republicans sleepless nights. States are becoming more and more like UK's county councils with every Democratic administration. And @gliddofglood - for the love of Goat, quit rabble-rousing! :Hilarious:
Have any of the 'remain' experts explained the predicted stock market crash that didn't happen yet? They all said it would, 100% of them. And yes, I am including the footsie 250, seeing as that was used by an expert a couple of days ago as a save face excuse: as that has recovered too - all within a week.
Not for me I'm afraid. She was a lukewarm Remainer,and the country voted to leave the EU. In the last couple of weeks prior to the Referendum it was obvious to me that she was positioning herself for this moment. As it comes as no surprise that BJ has baled out,(I've said earlier that I suspected he was a bit of a cartoon figure pretending to be in favour of exit,he'll no doubt be round at Daves tonight for supper),this may,(pardon the pun),be the Establishments back up plan. So if Joe Public didn't get terrified into submission by all the brexit horror stories,then they were very likely to see straight through Boris. So get Theresa to keep her mouth shut and in position so we'll still be in charge.The BBC are giving her all the arselicking airtime so I'd say no thanks for that reason alone. To get the best deal with Europe,I'd prefer the winsome Mrs Leadsom or Liam Fox. She has no cabinet experience but then neither did DC and he's done ok. And there has to be a place for Nigel Farage in the negotiating team.I appreciate that many people don't like him,but he's been accused of saying an awful lot of things that he wasn't guilty of,by a media and an establishment that saw this day coming an awfully long time ago.(If you do as much research as I did,find the transcript of his speeches/UKIP literature,I think you will find the same). He fears no one,stands up for what he believes in,and doesn't shy away from a fight.You might not share his principles,but he doesn't change them like the wind direction. Of course anyone can interpret anything the way they want to,but as in the report on the loss of our fishing industry UKIP wrote some years ago,(and quoted by yours truly on here),there is an awful lot more to UKIP than most people think. Farage is a very clever bloke,he's not gained a lot personally out of this and he's suffered the most vile abuse from all sides including that turncoat Carswell.He would have been an MP himself if the Tories hadn't conspired with other parties ,and spent loads of money,on keeping him out of the Lower House .
Haven't been doing any research then? Just the closed mind,"I don't like him so he can't be principled"? Thought so...no wonder you believed all the remain propaganda... Farage was banging the drum 17 years ago in the EU parliament,and has appeared on Question Time on and off since 2002. every time,the same message,"UK out of the EU". Thats called having a principle,and sticking to it.
