1200 I Give Up! Hello Ktm My Dear Old Friend.

How similar are the later generations' engines? Are the same issues going to surface, or have there been modifications?

 

This whole experience of yours makes a pretty good argument for - especially at current interest rates - going for a PCP/finance deal rather than paying cash (which is what I tend to do, as I'm a mean Scotsman who hates paying interest to the feckers). Might actually consider that once I make my own mind up about next bike.

 

Tell them we said hurry up, as we are all waiting [emoji6]

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Well I've had an interesting morning. The 1290 had to go in for a new clutch slave under warranty - KTM's and clutch slaves? Surely not..
As luck would have it they want the bike all day as they don't know when the part will arrive so they gave me an 1190 Adventure on loan, the bike I'm considering as a replacement for the SMT, and a logical competitor to the MTS.
First thing I did was ride it 30 miles to the local BMW dealer to try it back to back against a 1200 GS and a 1000XR.
I know you're not considering a GS or an 1190 JH, but for what its worth:

First thing I noticed about the 1190 was how hard the seat was... But its a lovely thrusting engine and the handling is superb. But that seat..

Jumped on a 1200 GS first. And I get it. I see why its the world's favourite bike. Sumptuously comfortable and perfect ergonomics for the human body. Everything feels intuitive, natural and is where it is supposed to be. This one had the Akra can and it soundly bloody lovely.
Its lower, easier to manoeuvre at low speed than the 1190 and instantly comfortable. Even the levers feel right, the weight, the span, the shape. The screen works. The 1190's is OK but not great. I'd have to replace it with a Palmer screen but the GS's is faultless and the easy one hand adjustment is inspired - even if the knob should be on the left hand side.
The KTM has the legs though. The GS is good and lively but it can't accelerate like the 1190 and there is a touch of shaft drive torque reaction sending little shimmies to the back wheel when rolling on or off the throttle through corners. But you get used to it.
It didn't feel as punchy as I remembered from when I first rode one. But that was the first water cooled GS from 2013 which the sales guy told me had a lighter flywheel and felt more responsive.
That changed the equation. 2014 1190s can be had for under 9 grand now. Its value for money against a 2014 GS which are a struggle to find for 10.5 K, but a 2013 GS is a grand cheaper and has the punchier engine which narrows the gap in price and performance with the 1190.

Then I tried the XR and I'm afraid it isn't for me. I hate to say it but I didn't think it was actually that fast. It is when you ring its neck but for 80% of the rev range it feels like there's no power, no torque and no engine breaking. It is quick when its howling but I pinned it to the rev limiter in 3rd and 4th and it didn't come close to the combined fury of torque and horsepower that the 1290 unleashes when the MTC is turned off. Maybe it would feel better if I had it for longer and properly recalibrated my brain to an I/L 4 after years on twins, but to me if felt like I was constantly having to rev the knackers off it to find any power. Its there aplenty but all crammed into a very narrow band at seemingly impossibly high revs. An established twin rider definitely needs to try one of these before buying. Some will make the transition but I think many will not.
The seat wasn't as good as the GS's either though it was better than the KTM's. Likewise the screen. Smaller, more basic, less protective than the GS's but quieter than the KTM's.
But special mention for the XR when it come to the handling. The chassis is sublime. Centre of gravity is a little higher than the 1190 and a lot higher than the GS and it feels a bigger lump of a bike at low speed but that evaporates when the wheels start to spin. BMW's reactive suspension, or whatever its called, is surely the best in its class. It is truly a magic carpet ride with silky steering and wonderful brakes. Its like riding on a bed of air and yet somehow there is still plenty of feedback from the wheels. You can feel the grip through all angles of lean even though you can barely feel the vibration of the road surface beneath you and it shruggs off cornering forces and tracks like a thing on rails with no effort from the rider at all.
Talking of vibration, that was't nearly as bad as i was expecting from what other people have been saying. I detected nothing worth metioning through the bars and very little through the pegs. I did feel a pronounced buzz through my heels if I rested them against the chassis but it wasn't off-putting. To me the infamous XR buzzing is a non-issue. Its whether riders used to big powerful twins can make the transition to a peaky I/L four that matters..

For myself, I'm torn now. The 1190 is a lovely punchy sweet-handling thing and its a used bargain next to the GS, but I can see myself getting out in the morning on a tour, looking at that seat and wishing I didn't have to get on it. That would never happen with the GS.
Hmm, decisions..

 

I think you will find we are waiting for you mate. Since this all started I know I've been feeling your pain and glad your getting some kind of resolve finally.

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Bloody hell - that's a win right there! - theres nothing like the feeling of shopping for a new bike...

 

It's the right outcome.

I'm another one who doesn't buy anything on tick: If I can't afford it, I can't have it. Applies to everything. If BH weren't there this would be a litigation probably...

I've been down the small claims route a number of times, last with Dell for a shitty media centre. I've always won, but it is a hassle.

Anyway - the right outcome. Good movement.

 

Sounds like the best result. At least BH have stepped up, even if it's only because of regulation but they can always fight it and draw it out.

 

I'd get the press in on this as well... It's a 'nice' tale of a customer being hung out by a dealer and manufacturer.

 

JH thats a super offer from BH

So what New Bike you buying now to have a warantee?

 

You wont be disappointed with the GS once used to it. I have gone R1, Fz1s, MTS1200, S1000r, then GS.
....never gelled as quickly with a bike, feckin awesome on bumpy twisty back roads. In the words of an experienced and quick biker friend "you have never been as quick..'.
Obviously once roads open up (or a fast section of N260 in Pyrenees) and triple figures come in, then you want the S1, or R1. But in the real world where you need to keep a license....

If the GS seems breathless (was the demo run in and loose?), then Hilltop tuning release some serious extra go for around £300. Mine is a 2014 so unsure if its early lighter weight fly wheel.

 

btw, GS was good for 120mph, two up, full luggage on German autobahn earlier this year and it wasnt flat out. and it could still play with the Dutch bikers who were one up in the Eifel national park a few days later.

 

Excellent news! Good things come to those who wait..
As far as the other bikes go, I agree, I wouldn't have had the GS if it was my only bike but I want a second bike as tourer, albeit a sports tourer.
The 1190 is bigger and heavier than the 990s and you're in it more than on it, but its a lot quicker as well and extremely agile.
It hasn't quite the looks of the SMs but I wouldn't say it had lost the KTM magic. I guess its midway between the old 990s and the big sophisticated current generation of 1200 upright adventure bikes. I think they come with Conti Attack tyres as standard. Replacing those with some proper sporty road rubber would make it feel even more up on its toes and put it back in SMR territory; only thing is even the road-going Adventure has a 170/60/17 rear and a 120/70/19 front, so I don't know if you can. You can decat them though. Arrow do headers and can for about £900 and there are Rotweiller airboxes available too, so you can certainly make them rorty and snorty.
Either way, if you're into a new bike through your original dealer and they're KTM dealers you might do well to test ride the 1190. Don't right it off. Its a fine bike and as I say about midway in character between the small, light, simple 990 SMs of old and the bigger, more complex uprights like the Multi.
I wouldn't have any qualms about reliability. Its the same engine as the RC8R and they are well known for racking up big mileages including trackday thrashing, without problems.
Early 1190 had a slightly weak starter motor which was replaced by the stronger starter off the 1290 in 2014 and some early bikes reputedly had leaky airboxes, but those bikes were few and far between, mostly in the US and Australia and in any case there is a cheap aftermarket filter upgrade available. Shouldn't think its an issue at all on anew bike.
You won't get an 1190 for under £8000 but they are creeping in under 9, though perhaps not at a dealer.

 

Demo bike had done 1800. Run-in but still tight for sure. I had it up to 120 easily enough and it didn't feel quite as breathless above 7000 rpm as I remembered. That could be why they increased the weight of the flywheel.
The handling is excellent, I agree. I would say the 1190 felt like it could be pushed harder and leant further but that could be down to me needing to get used to the BM's torque reaction and getting my head round the idea of the great pots sticking out of the side.
When I've sold the other bikes and I'm in a position to buy I'm going to try a 2013 GS against a new one to see if there really is any difference in response. If there is and it feels like the bike I remember its going to be a very hard decision. May come down to luggage and accessories available between KTM and BMW and what deals are available on the day.