I do understand and it would be a boring world if we were all the same but for me I have tended to adopted the serenity prayer God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference. Works well for me but I appreciate it won't work for everyone.
deffo, i agree, but what i think i can help to change is where we differ. which again, is totally cool. :smileys:
Politicians peddle certainty knowing that they cannot deliver,but large numbers of voters still swallow the lie. According to authority Death,accident,misfortune,bad luck,whatever you call it,can always be avoided if you obey the law...you must wear a helmet,a seatbelt,avoid fags,don't do drugs,don't drive using a mobile,stick to the speed limits...you must be saved from yourself. And if anything happens to you,its someone else's fault,it must be,because the government told you it wouldn't happen but it still did.(As long as it's not a nurse,a copper or a judge...they will be blameless because it will be a misjudgment,no blame there then). Problem is...you will still die,sooner or later. You might go broke,maybe a bank will take your business,a customer might not pay,your nipper breaks his leg paragliding. Anything can happen. Brexit might be fantastic,it might be shit,no one but no one KNOWS anything for certain no matter what they say,and Governments know less than their citizens.There is no such thing as certainty,apart from death.
I guessed he was probably something like that, the orange jacket did look like it was a statement of some kind.
I still don't really get the mantra that remain voters keep clinging to in regards to immigration. Nobody has said (unless I've slept through it) that we should halt immigration full stop. They've said we need to control immigration to reasonable levels. How can that not be a perfectly sensible argument? Controlled immigration therefore allows the skilled & intelligent immigrants this chap talks about to come here without worry if theres a job waiting for them. Thats a bit different to having a completely open border whereby any European passport holder can walk in to the UK, reside here for as long as they wish, with or without contributing to the system.
the problem is the people that jumped on your band wagon, that's undeniable. nobody on here is accusing you or anybody else on here of racism, xenophobia or what ever. (shame it wasn't a bit more restrained on other similar threads). somebody mentions some of the nastier elements of brexit and they are the ones shouted down?. nobody is expecting a disclaimer after every post. but if your gonna talk brexit, talk brexit, because that is just another part of it.
You could easily say the same about those remainers who then went to spout the losers mantra from both sides of the pond, "democracy doesn't work when I lose and you are all too stupid to understand" no one side has a clean sheet Is that shutting anyone down? Nope
I had absolutely no problem with uncontrolled immigration from the other EC countries that were members when we joined. But the EC morphed into the EU,many of the new member countries had undeveloped economies. The imbalance was obvious,and it didn't need a degree to work out the majority of immigrants would not be top scientists from Romania. Maybe because I worry far more about those at the bottom than those at the top,I had misgivings about uncontrolled immigration. The open door,open arms,no questions asked welcome now offered by the most powerful EU barons,(who completely ignore that it is the poorest of their own citizens that will pay a terrible price for this invitation),was,I imagine,the final straw for the vast majority of those who were already uncertain of the value of EU membership. A nations politicians are elected to represent the best interests of their people,surely? Mass,uncontrolled immigration,from countries where the economy,language,habits and culture differ so much from those who already live here,benefits no one apart from the rich and/or unscrupulous.
In all countries, we need jobs throughout the range as every country has a range of needs from the very brightest to those who are not. If you remove an entire segment of work avaliable by flooding it with cheaper migrants then you remove a future for the nations poorest that need it the most. It's estimated that as we stand, over 3.5 million people have moved from the EU to live and work in the U.K. Our current U.K. employment is 1.66 million. The obvious stares out. To say what stands out is not xenophobic, racist or misogynistic. The obvious question is how did this happen followed by what can we do about it. In every country, not just the U.K. when you have mass immigration, you rarely get mass integration. Almost every brexiteer I've spoken to seems to hold to the same mantra, we are okay with immigration, we know as our kids become more selfish, less likely to have kids etc that we have a need to fill employment but and this is the but remainers still see as a minority stance when it is not it is the majority of brexiteers, The country needs to find a way to see what our actual need is then cater immigration to our need. Immigration in all countries fails when it is open door but will succeed if you say what are our needs and lets pick the best people we can to come here. I agree with you fin, mention all of brexit, where I disagree is when you list brexiteers as the mass anti imigration when clearly they are not and have never been. Perhaps it is just the remainers mindset where they continue to see a minority as a majority. If anything we are pro migration but tailored to the countries need and all applicants treated equally and not the two tier elite system the remainers favour by staying in the EU
again, you assume if i say that i am talking to you. when i say that i am talking to the people who believe brexit will be a magic pill for all their problems, i can see that all the big players on this thread know exactly why they voted for brexit, done their research, all honorable for sure. thing is, your panacea is my stupid. i really have no idea why some of (probably plenty) voted the way they did, wales for example, the highest beneficiary of EU investment,in the uk after being forgotten by Westminster since day one yet voted to leave in the biggest percentages? the southwest with the lowest amount of immigration but with a tourist industry that depends on immigration ? wtf?.
But it's all Brexit finm, immigration, sovereignty, controls. I still firmly believe that in the end we'd be better out of the EU, IF the EU continues in its current guise and structure. If it changed then maybe I wouldn't care, but what hope is there of that. Im not one to wrap myself in a Union flag whilst chanting Engerlund, not my thing that. I'm not insular by any stretch of the imagination, nor am I racist or xenophobic. There is still daily scaremongering by big business, financial institutions, politicians, it's everywhere. And in reality they're all the same people who didn't want this to happen. What we are doing is leaving a trade agreement, not Europe, just a trade agreement, which by being bound to means it restricted us on decision making within our own country. I see it as nothing more than that. The EU itself is not in particularly great shape, certain areas are in dire straights and so I don't see it as the same level of risk that scramonegers peddle. I've just been reading this and he's somebody who actually makes a living off predictions The Big Short: is the next financial crisis on its way? | Money | The Guardian It's not new as I think most have known Italy is in financial crisis, but they're close to going down and others within the EU aren't far behind.
I see your point on that but maybe it wasn't about immigration or anything remotely financial in mind. Maybe, and I'm sincerely guessing here, people are just fed up with being told what they can or can't do, should or shouldn't do, by not only our own political establishment, but by career politician's somewhere over the channel that they've never heard of. Many many many times over the last so many years, people like Junker have made comments which many probably found to be disparaging of the British, the arrogance of the man makes even my blood boil and I'm fairly thick skinned and used to looking past the outer shell. Maybe it's that and you know what, I don't blame them. Just look at the USA, a similar situation or rejection of the political elite.
I doubt anyone who voted for Brexit see's it as a one stop fix but most I feel, do see it as the first step of change and a change that is sorely needed. Globalisation relies on the free movement of cheap labour and cares little for those being moved or those who suffer from the influx. Where the globalists succeed it would seem, is they are very good at getting two sides to fight each other rather than both sides turn on the opportunist globalists. What you can say about brexit and trump, is that the majority seem to have woken up and said enough is enough
maybe it just the timing and the people i distrust thats doing the offering of brexit. 1.6trill in debt. some torys, trump, a city trader with previous, trying to sell me an end to globalization? hmm.
