British Indy: What Happens Now?

Yet they got more or less the same number of votes nationally as SNP who have 56 MPs. Is that democratic ?

 

ukip and its support have always been there but where just called torys. Trojan hoarse torys i have seen them called. is there any truth in remarks made recently by a former bbc secretary general that he was put under immense political pressure to promote ukip and denigrate corbin? spotted the article the other day. cant find it now. more post truth?.
twisting the figures to suit jv? less members and mp's than the liberals and he english green party. thats the facts.

 

That is the beauty of statistics, we can all be selective, truthful and present the story that suits us best whilst totally ignoring the bigger picture.

 

You are quoting from the Telegraph from a known right wing Tory with a vested interest. They always quotes UK this and that but the majority of the big companies based in the UK are not UK owned and have no particular interest in Britain or its future other than its currently the best place for them to be as it allows free access to EU trade without having to invest in Euros, even India told May that was the case. If that is no longer the case in two years and they are better off based in Frankfurt, Spain or France then they will leave. The fact is the UK government will have to give big financial incentives to get these companies to remain in the UK so we will still be no better off financially. However, you and I will be worse off as we will have to pay the tariffs, not the government.

Well I didn't specifically look for anything right wing, though whilst we're on that subject;

Why does he have a vested interest?

Is it because he doesn't believe in the EU ideology ?

Then maybe you're right, but thats no reason to doubt what he says, he was after all more involved in trade negotiations than you or i, as such id say he knew more than us wouldn't you agree?

In regards to Tariffs and/or EU membership, and who pays what, can i just bring you to stop using the word 'FREE' .... It is not FREE trade, not by any stretch because we pay 'membership'

Has it ever crossed your mind that you & the businesses you mention are paying towards those 'membership' costs already in tax, VAT, corporation tax etc ?

As such you're paying these tariffs, you just don't have it highlighted on an invoice

Theres no such thing as a free lunch, surely you appreciate that?

I can assure you our lovely government aren't paying for us all without reaping that back, it comes from tax revenue amongst other things.

The government could quite happily reduce corporation tax in areas likely to be hit hardest by the biggest tariffs, taking cars for an example.

Then its down to good old competition from the manufacturers as to whether they are going to pass that on for market share and competitive advantage.

That is on the basis that much of these 'tariffs' don't get cancelled out by reciprocal tariffs imposed the other way and annulled (tit for tat)

And to try and add some positive spin to that, when we're out of the EU, and trading with the EU becomes more expensive, then it will become more appealing to trade more widely outside of the EU.

Again that creates competition, and for EU based suppliers wishing to trade within the UK , and retain what marketshare they enjoy currently, they'll likely have to 'sharpen their pencil' so to speak.


Trade is only one part of the EU membership benefits that I would like us to keep. I like to be able to travel round Europe as i wish without having to ask permission every time. I like the fact there has been no conflict in EU countries since they joined. I like having a close relationship with our European neighbours. I like the fact i can buy goods on the internet from Europe without any issue, delay or additional cost.


Now i don't know what you do as a job, or whether you have a special privilege over and above me (possible), but i have never, not once, been able to leave the UK via plane, train or boat in my lifetime without having to show my passport during the trip.

I travel a lot, even more nowadays as i have to deal with our suppliers which are European and worldwide. I cover Germany, France, Belgium, Italy, Netherlands, Turkey, America and on occasion the far east

I also go overseas at least twice a year on my bike and then on holiday with my family.

Having to ask 'permission' happens all the time, its called passport control at every airport, ferry terminal and channel tunnel barrier. Being in the EU doesn't change that for a Brit.

At the very worst case you'll have to pay a 10 euro visa fee upon landing in Europe, and so IF you went to europe 10 times a year then its 100 euros, easy math for you there.

Now then, when us brits are past France passport control and on the continent, what then?

Are they going to create special inter-europe boarder checks for the British only?

Spend 100's of millions of euros trying to put check points in place at each open border just to stop 'damodici' and check his passport again?

No, no they're not.


As for the conflict i get that, and equally i don't want conflict with a european neighbour.

But what in gods name has made you even worry about that?

I stress again, the EU isn't Europe, the EU is a trading club.

By the British leaving it doesn't mean we'll all of a sudden get in a ruck with our neighbours, thats just ridiculously naive.

As for buying stuff on the internet well i point you to what i said about tariffs and basic business logic.

Since the £ has lost value against the euro I've even noticed many european eBay suppliers (all web purchases as you mention) lowering the prices and discounting. Its true as I've been watching various carbon and motorbike parts for the new SD i just bought. They are in fact coming down in price further than the gains in the £ we've had over recent days.

Why? because they need to retain the sell through from the British market.

IF buying from Europe online becomes more expensive, then just imagine how much cheaper it will become to buy online from the USA as/when we agree a free trade deal there.

Either way its competition i welcome.


My concern is the way this country is being dictated to by a very small band of right wing wealthy Tories who want to ignore Parliamentary debate, ignore those who don't agree with them (the majority of whom are the future of this Nation), ignore the rule of law and have allowed a non-elected bunch from another Party actually dictate their own Party policy


Ok, you don't like the Tories. But who are they dictating to?

The referendum was won by the people, not by the tories, not by anybody else, quite simply by a majority vote from the country you reside in.

No they're not forthcoming in detail regarding negotiations, but we've been through this and its again naive to expect that they should show their hand to the world

What they are doing is using the time to their advantage, seeing what and how certain things play out.

You've got Junker et al screaming get on with it and doing all the dictating, but we don't have to get on with it, its entirely up to us what we want to do and when we want to do it. That is what annoys them.

If you think conversations aren't going off in the background with other countries and certain areas of business then you'll only ever see the negatives.

Whilst we might not be ok to have open and 'official' talks with other countries, doesn't mean they're not happening.

Example; Trump and his team have already said they'd like to get things in line ready to do a deal with the UK, do you honestly think they give a shit about conversations behind closed doors and whether Mr Junker wouldnt be happy?

Those things are being dealt with, its what i would do and so I'm pretty sure preliminary conversations are or have been done with a range of folk, but only those who can be trusted not to say anything.

That is what happens in life

 

i think its time we came clean loz.
folks, myself and loz are working in partnership to expose the bollox you are being peddled. i am sure most of you politicos are aware of the amount of uk relevant committees they are on and debates they take part in. but here is a wee taster of the strength and passion they bring to westminster. give it five mins of your time. its worth it.

it was eventually filibustered out (again) i can give you plenty of examples of their work in westminster. in the short term it made no difference. but with people watching (quite a lot up here) in the long run?.

 

its no secret over the last 30 years certain areas have seen population decline, why do you think that is? do you also know the size of the constituencies they serve?

 

Oh no, this'll be at least two years, probably more

Either that or the tariffs , and price increases imposed by Ducati will whittle the forum down to such an extent it'll be like a ghost town..........

 

you dont need to. its common knowledge. or at least it should be.if not this is what happens when you close yer ears and go lalalala.

 

Do you have a subtitled version?

Given that young ladies drive of thought , I wonder if the SNP have ever taken their own medicine?

In regards to Europe and the thread. Here is how I see things going

The UK will not hard or soft brexit but will do as the question was asked on the ballot, Leave Europe. Depending on the deal the snp may or may not ask for another independence vote, now they will only have a small time slot to do this as after that they can never ask again for a very long time.

If they decide to leave then they will first have to negotiate with the British government and then leave before they can even talk to the EU about joining as a new country, they will be forced to use the Euro

If they decide to stay then they will be better off.

Now all this depends on a few variables, Italy this weekend, Austria this weekend, Germany and France next year so negotiating with the EU might be problematic if it folds

 

both right and wrong.
the time will be when the people want it. there is no campaign and hasn't been for 26months.
there is no need to adopt the euro from the kick off. that's a lie. the way the pound is looking you would need to persuade us to use it now.
i think our own currency is looking like the prefferd option now. if indeed it ever happens.
in 2014 it was stated by various respected credit ratings agencies we would likely receive a AAA rating. hows the uk's looking?

 

Is Trump going to dig the UK up and move it closer to the USA? We will always be European despite what many might think.

 

I don't disagree with absolutely everything you say ( at least you seem able to put your points across without taking to denigrating everyone elses point of view) but do you realistically think all this can happen in 2 years or even 5 years or maybe even 10? Is it not the case that 2 years after Article 50 is signed, all current agreements we have with the rest of the world on trading become null and void and unless we have agreed a new deal in that time, then every import and export deal has to be done under WTO rules and tariffs? Its unrealistic to expect many deals to be done within those two years particular as the government has no negotiators and government history on doing anything within a time and budget scale is probably as bad as it ever gets.

 

yip you just answered you own question.
the population has stayed mostly stable as a whole but the rural ares have seen a decline of population share. mostly due to economic decline. the boundaries are being redrwan to reflect this. the problem with this is the size and diversity of the constituencies. there is plenty of debate to be watched from westminster if you can be arsed looking.