Anyone else watching the TV coverage of the Supreme court? And has anyone else noted that every time the Governments brief summarises the arguments against the earlier Judgement,Sly News and the BBC cut away to something else,(in Sly's case to advertising,the BBC to the EU mandarin tasked with making the UK's difficult in the post-EU future). It seems the media don't mind showing the man in the street the legalese,but they can't bear to show the obvious conclusion...
When we pull out, would I be right in thinking that as we are no longer in the EU, we will no longer be obligated legally or morally to provide any European, access to any of our benefits system?
Some of the vaguities of, they come here to use our benefits or, they come here to work have been muddied in the middle. Most who do work tend to have bare minimum wage jobs, most not all. benefits are not just job seekers, esa or disability benefit. in the Low paid migrant workers, most will claim housing benefit, working tax credits and of course child benefit. It's worth noting here that many other European countries do not offer Brits this support when a Brit emigrates to most other EU countries. Down side of this? it effectivley means opportunistic U.K. employers know they will never have to pay a living wage but can get away with paying the bare minimum wage knowing the state support system will top up the wages of migrant workers. If we are during the deal, seeking a balance then I doubt any Eu citizens whether current or future, will have access to our benefit system as the EU will stop us from using theirs.
I'm sorry, I don't accept that government waste, incompetence and politically motivated profligacy are symptoms of wealth inequality or a failure to collect enough tax. They are not necessarily causes either, they are endemic conditions of our political system and would in no way be cured by the desolate Marxist scenario of a universal wage. Politicians will still squander other people's money to pursue ideological agendas and buy support in elections. And even if they didn't they will always be prone to the same mistakes, misjudgements and failures we see now. And in any case, there'd be no tax to collect because anyone who feels they are capable or doing better than the systems permits will simply up sticks and bugger off somewhere which gives them that opportunity to do so. Admittedly, enforced social uniformity would solve our population crisis. Millions would flee faster than they fled Castro's derelict dystopia. I suppose, like Castro, the government could simply shoot escapees to stop the staff absconding but that rather defeats the object and bullets costs money too. At least £1 a bang.
I should have been a bit more specific in attributing causes and effects. So much for brevity. Government waste, incompetence and politically motivated profligacy are symptoms of a society that has gone off the rails, they are not symptoms of economic inequality. The point I was attempting make was that they are not themselves what is wrong with society, they are only visible effects of such. Anyone believing that Marxism is the answer to any of this ... well, they haven't met "people", have they. Enforced social uniformity has been tried, and failed every single time. People need to want to see what the problem is, and to want to be part of the solution. We see this occur whenever we read about a successful social enterprise business, or where the owner of a business takes a rational, enlightened view of his and his workforce's relative wages. Where no one's income is more than ten times anyone else's, you see a major decrease in the dissatisfaction that social inequality brings with it.
I can't see why we should be? The benefits system is already ripe for those in the know to exploit, let alone us having even more sucked out of the country by someone from another country 'entitled to it'.....Yeh, of course they. I was just reading this Man found guilty over Belgium attacks terror suspect cash - BBC News Nice how a £3000 payment to commit terrorist attacks was topped up using benefits eh Jesus H Christ, it's stuff like this that makes my blood boil
And am I missing something here? This wonderful chap seems to suggest we'll be given 18 months to negotiate, not two years. Now whether that matters or not who knows, but I was under the impression Article 50 was the official notice of leaving the EU As such it's two years from that (March 2017) Or is that wrong? UK will have under 18 months to reach deal, says EU Brexit broker | Politics | The Guardian
The welfare system keeps people where the government wants them so they know where they are Can you imagine the uproar if you took these benefits away now There would need to be a job available for each of them There are people dying on the streets did you see the homeless man who froze to death Low paid jobs will never amount to what would be needed to live unaided Supermarkets would never pay £12 an hour which is where it would need to be to be able to stop claiming working tax credit Working tax credit isn't a huge amount it's around £250 a month £62 a week £8 a day we aren't talking massive sums of money and people are working for that and running a house and paying a mortgage (single person) I'm not sure who is getting all the money
I saw the actual interview rather than a tabloid opinion of it. He said he would hope to have the negotiations done within 18 months to then allow both sides to put the negotiated final draft before their own houses for approval and allow time for fine tuning, with everything to be done within the 2 years That is his interpretation and wish but not a wish or interpretation shared by the U.K. government. The two years COULD be extended should both sides agree. As it currently stands and with no side wishing to extend, then anything which is not mutually agreed within the two year period, will no longer be discussed between the two sides and those matters then become the individual countries responsibilities He did say again, which is nothing new, that the 4 main core freedoms remain at the heart of EU. This would imply that Europe wants us to have, what they and the remainers call, a hard brexit or as it was otherwise known, a no vote.
Well yes and no. As I mentioned earlier, the fuzzy bit is when you assume only unemployed eu nationals are claiming benefits. As of February 2015, 113, 960 working-age claimants of DWP benefits were EU migrants (that is, when they first registered for a National Insurance Number, they were a national of another member state). This represents 2.2% of total claimants. If however you ask what is the number of EU workers using the uk benefits system is then As of March 2014 317,800 families who were in receipt of tax credits, 6.8% of total claimants, contained at least one adult who was an EU national at NINo registration. Now, the figures show as families and is incredibly vague as to how many maybe in that EU family We can say that as a bare minimum between March 2014 and November 2015 that a bare minimum of 431,760 eu nationals were using our benefits system in some form. How many EU migrants claim benefits in the UK? – UK in a changing Europe It's worth also bearing in mind that since November 2015 that the amount of EU nationals migrating to the U.K. has risen to record levels so it would not be unreasonable to assume those using our benefits system will have gone up too
You assume to much when it appears to work in your favour. Nothing is that simple though. How many British nationals might have to return home as they can no longer claim benefits in the the EU country where they are currently living? How many ex pat pensioners will have to return home to add further burden to the NHS if they can no longer use the free health facilities in Spain, Portugal, France or elsewhere?
:tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy: you're not very good at this are you duke. I give you figures and you call it assumption You then babble on about what if's whilst accusing others of assumption. Honestly duke , sometimes you don't even see that you are homer simpson, but homer simpson your arguments are
Re read the last paragraph you posted. And what about all those ex pats who might have to return home?
Sarah Olney's (bremoaner) victory speech last week in Richmond may come back to bite; "..And our message is clear: we do not want a ‘hard Brexit’; we do not want to be pulled out of the Single Market; and we will not let intolerance, division and fear win." Interesting document from the Greens who decided not to contest the seat. Ms Olney's party not letting intolerance get in the way of open politics by offering them £250k not to stand? Confidential Richmond Park Report The work of the Liberal's brexit spokesman?
