Karting ....125 Rotax Max Or Similar

I raced max nationally (supers) for most of my childhood and teenage years

What would you like to know mate?

 

I have only driven up to dmax 2 strokes which are probably 10 hp off a proper rotax as they don't have the powervalve connected but it was such a step up from pro karts I can Hardly describe it.

The control needed in braking for example is totally different as there is a lot less weight. The trick to the rotax max might be to get somewhere where there is a slow group to get a feel for it otherwise it could be pretty intimidating


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Dmax compared to a trick race rotax is like comparing a Ford Focus 1.6 to a Ford Focus RS. Same model essentially but a completely different animal. It is however the closest you'll get 'corporately'

You're 100% right ref intimidation, I used to call senior max, senior death as it was shunts galore. Usually at turn 1. You'd watch the whole grid get loaded up and sent in to the barriers.

Was awesome fun lol. I can't talk, it was shunt or be shunted lol, I had the nick name basher Haha used to do a nose cone every meeting lol

 

What's your plans? just fun or racing?

 

Of course I should have said that it's only the best u can get for a corporate kart, the chassis for example is probably still 50% heavier! But compared to a pro kart. I actually like the prokarts though and have done many many laps of Thruxton kart circuit in one but dmax gave me a taste of the step that rotax might be, like the first Time I stepped off my creaky zxr400 which probably had 45hp onto my dad's brand new gsxr that had 90hp and weighed less!




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For competition chassis choice is crucial !

Some of the top boys in supers for example will throw away a chassis every meeting!!

My record was two in one weekend at shenny

 

I was testing with a kart race team 2016 with a view to racing.
I imagine you know most of this and more than me, if you driven geared 2 stroke 250 super karts??

I've not driven any 4 stroke karts other than couple commercial fun days.. so can't compare.


Kart racing, test days, run your own kart.

You can test without a race licence but you'll need one to race.
If you have a full car race licence that is valid for kart racing too.

You might get away with wearing a bike lid and overalls on a kart test day but you'll need proper kit to race.
Test days in karts are more like track days.... test days in cars are more strict.

I don't think many race teams will let a non race licenced driver test a race kart.
Some won't let you test with the team until you buy your own Kart.
I think in my case because I'd raced single seaters I had more luck getting a test drive with a race team, perhaps more so, than if I'd been from a tin top race back ground I suspect.

Testing fees are cheap.
If I recall it's something like £30 or £40 quid for the day? Maybe cheaper at some circuits.
I got 4 or 6 10 mins sessions (subject to the numbers in bambino, cadet class, etc turn up)
They run similar pace karts together where I go.

Although there were only 3 of us really going round, like I guess would be the sharp end of a fast group on a bike trackday. It was no issue with the number of slower drivers, just a pain when they bring the flags out... which I admit I ignored a few times. I don't think the marshalls are going to ring the MSA up and report you on a kart test day.
Racing I expect you'd perhaps get endorsements on your race licence. I think being in a team or at least looking the part, helps a little with the officials, as they know you're a race licenced driver and some of the drivers are perhaps not, so they leave you alone with over taking while the flags are out...

I'm not paying to put in timed laptimes with a team and have my video/data examined and it being a waste of time because some people can't get it on the track.

The karts do eat pads, and need plenty maintenance if your doing near race pace.
This is where the cost of karting is and in my case, paying for prep, storage, track side (team)

I'd expect a season in karting (the way I'd do it) is roughly the same as season in single seaters.
Where as I do everything myself in single seaters (with a little help from a mate at the track)
Which I previously found too hard around work while aiming to be competitive, once I got up to speed-ish.

I'd imagine Karting can be much cheaper if you run yourself. The difference is more parts at cheap prices I guess.

I think you might need to check your oil type for a rotax max, I think a junior can run on Pro2 but a max they recommend something different. The karts I test with use a mineral oil I think?
Gearing is critical when you are getting serious, I think they have specific carb settings too?

The (kart) class I would enter would be senior X30 177 (177-KG is the min weight all in) Not saying this is the best.


The motor X30 is same power output as Rotax full power but a little more progressive..

They are popular in non national kart championships, which attract some competitive older drivers..
Apparently you are talking 1st to last split by 1 sec or 2 max.

I think Rotax still have strong grids?

My mate has a Rotax but it's not something run by race teams I'd look at..
Most people who have Rotax are wobbling round at test days where I've been and run their own karts.

A popular chassis is a Tony Kart (which can be a bit more expensive) but as far as racing goes. This might not be the best chassis for all classes, there are others... I understand this chassis works well for most, some have different characteristics. They can alter some of the feel.

These chassis are improved or altered yearly.. it's rare to see a chassis older than 2 seasons racing in a fast class.
I think they jig them sometimes but they lose their competitive edge, they get knocked about etc... I think there is an element of flex in a kart chassis, they can change this to suit grip... and this can change over time too. It's odd when it you sit in one and steer they flex..

I was over the weight limit for the 177 class (but that was my bench mark as I was being accessed for competition) Never driven a two stroke race kart before but I was 2 secs off a seasoned racer in the same kart who was with me. He was from the 164 class... so a good advantage over me, which was good enough for me to consider working at it. He was doing 47's I was doing 49's both on old rubber on a damp-ish variable day... in unfamiliar karts / set ups.

It's no joke though...

I've done a more than a few rounds in some very fast single seaters (scary corner speeds) and some professional sim training and I'm still not there. Karting I found not as fast but so full on yet precise, very hard to do a clean lap but every lap needs to be a clean lap... I was please as I was consistent but not fast enough... no point trying again until I am at the min wieght limit.

Anyone considering it would probably need to test and possibly have coaching if you want race at a good pace, these guys I've been around take it fairly seriously. Perhaps there are different classes?..

I am with a team that data logs and I'd be no way near as fast with out them, they do set up changes to the axels, soft or hard and other bits.... constantly correcting me through the day.

Something that really shows me what I was missing on the big circuits... having to make set up changes and stick with them with no time in between quali and racing, or having no time to test the set up, finding in the race it was not ideal.... very hard to run against drivers with teams, when you run yourself with limited help. Perhaps a bit easier in Karting but I found there's lots they do to kart set ups too..

I think you could get to a level and won't get better without help. Karting, it littlerly killed me after the first 3 laps, After lunch time I was done. So did my afternoon session on a different day but I needed to do it.

The level I raced at in single seaters the front runners are all ex kart (euro / international champs) and they grow up with this kind of training... unlimited budgets, made it so hard to compete with them on big circuits for someone running their own car.

Still, the level I'd race (karts) you won't meet young career drivers, maybe retired ones...

Oh, you must get a rib protector, if you drive on or near the pace, you can brake ribs. I was wearing that was a bit lose one time and it hurt me for days after.

I could PM you some contacts but if you are looking at it as fun, not racing these guys can be dicks I found... latest chassis, to be competitive. Control tyres etc..

I think there is something called DMAX championships run at Daytona? It's an in house thing I believe.
That's more of a fun, co-operate venue.. perhaps not quite the same as kart racing, as I know it.

They don't allow racers at those type of venues to use full on race karts or take their own etc.. liability?
Perhaps a more cost effective way to have some fun though?

Let me know if you want some details re, parts suppliers etc... I have some base settings for a rotax 125.

 

Yep

You'd need a budget of 100k+ per season to get to the sharpe end in nationals with someone like strawberry for instance in rotax. And to be honest unless you started at a young age you'll be forever playing catch up.

Euro's is expensive also.

Rotax has the biggest grids in the uk.

Gillard make a good chassis but the one you're looking at is spent for racing and too old.. Once they're bent they're never the same and clearly this one has been snapped (gillards had an issue with this iirc). Plus being that it was used in Euromax probably, it'll have been hammered!

Will be okay for testing and fun..

I ran seven engines when I raced, as you'll need differing 'squish' depending on the track. To be competitive you can't run yourself.

If you're just looking for fun in a two stroke get a TKM in my opinion. Or stick with 4 stroke.

And as above, for max anything Tony kart is good out of the box (or any of the other otk brands)..

I've run many differing chassis over the years and always gone back to Tony. But they're not built to last, as with anything it's a trade off. They're soft and flex a lot. Something like a crg tend to be stiffer therefor take a bit more abuse, but on the uk scene they struggle and can be a bitch to set up.

There's so much to it that I wouldn't know where to start to be honest buddy.

 

I guess that about sums up why I didn't look more seriously at buying a kart myself. I have subsidised Karting through work and actually got on okay against some guys who race in some regional and national series, maybe 1 sec a lap off the guy who wins regularly but although a mile over race distance I was getting faster and faster by trying to follow him.

Never more evident that when we used to go to Thruxton and I would be level with my friend on pace, did a seasons Karting with the work club and all of a sudden when we went back with mates I was 1-2 second a lap quicker than my mate and able to pass him pretty easy, allow him through and re-pass.

When looking to get my own kart though I honestly just didn't know where to start, an old twisted chassis was about it for what I could afford.

I did however have a mate (who I kept up with at Thruxton recently although he was pulling a much longer stint!) who raced endurance karts with prokarts which were super spec chassis with twin 160cc engines. He didn't own the team but paid £200 a month to drive, and turned up and had loads of racing and they were pretty decent. One guy owned the kart, and had 3 drivers paying £200 each to drive.

It's definitely something to consider as a way into getting much more seat time without outlays of your own kart and a step up from corporate for sure. The other option is Club100 which the top guys I raced with were also doing regularly. That's the other thing, it's like Golf, u get much better reasonably quickly and then reach a point where you are as quick as your talent allows but nothing replaces getting serious amounts of seat time which is the answer. If I aren't in a corporate championship already doing events u really should be doing regular competitive stuff to be learning off faster guys.

I had a great moment when I was racing a guy at dmax at sandown, he was the race leader and I followed him for a lap as he just eek'd away 2-3ft each corner up to a second a lap, the harder I try the more aggressive I get, and I could see the gap opening. It just shows the mindset and discipline needed to go fast. I've watched his videos and it doesn't look like he even moves the steering, certainly no fangio action! It all comes with time, and I guess lots of money...


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