Project fear is still well and truly in motion, just as much now as it ever was unfortunately. You have labour mps stating they won't back a Brexit, based on the presumption that we're walking to certain economic doom, and that economic doom will only play out remotely close to reality IF the remaining 27 EU member states try to impose overly vindictive terms. So, to clear that up. We give the UK population a vote, they have a vote and wish to leave the EU. These Mp's are saying they'd rather stay in the 'relationship' based on fearing repercussions from the very same people they want to stay tied to......makes perfect sense to me
im of the opinion they should represent their constituents. thats what they where voted in for. to do exactly that. but hayho.
don't think the prospect of leaving the eu was on the table or a reason why the individual mp's were voted in. But surely they were elected by a majority and have an obligation to do what the majority now wants?
But if we're going to start looking at constituency numbers, the vote to leave is even greater isn't it? I'm sure it's up at 60%+ or something? Now these specific labour mps might be in a constituency that voted remain, but they can't all continue to bend the rules. Whichever way it's looked at its a majority, either a small majority or a large majority.
cant see why this issue should be any different chiz, as the courts decided. MP's (our elected representatives) get the casting vote. only a handful of candidates stood on a manifesto to leave the EU. but certainly ours MSP's where elected on the premise of remaining within the EU, at holyrood they where voted in on a manifesto specifically to defend our right to remain in the EU. are you asking them to go back on a major manifest promise?.
Don't worry, finm, Indians are queuing up to buy our goods on there £1,000 per annum salaries. As to Australia, i'm sure they will love the summer gear we produce...wellies, raincoats, umbrellas, flood barriers, greasy chips... We have taken back control and its all going to be alright............well its going to fucking hilarious anyway. :tearsofjoy:
Nope but then we wasn't asking the snp to ignore the Scots remain in the U.K. vote or go back on the "that's it for a generation" from Alec either :smile:
No. MPs are there to represent their constituents in the UK Parliament, Parliament voted to have a referendum and the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. We all need to accept that as a democratic mandate, get behind it and negotiate the best possible terms for access to the single market from outside the single market.
Quite so. But if they did "represent" their constituents (in following up on a referendum result that was national and nothing to do with Parliamentary constituencies) they'd vote the Article 50 bill through with an overwhelming majority. Either way it will be passed and we will leave the European Union. I don't see why a dwindling number of delusionists can't understand this.
History Tells Us What Will Happen Next With Brexit And Trump | The Huffington Post Have a read. Much to learn in this and a warning to all.
Ah, The Huffington Post. Your view of the world makes a bit more sense now, even if you don't. :Hilarious:
Quote from the article. That was Hitler, but it was also Mussolini, Stalin, Putin, Mugabe and so many more. Mugabe is a very good case in point. He whipped up national anger and hatred towards the land owning white minority (who happened to know how to run farms), and seized their land to redistribute to the people, in a great populist move which in the end unravelled the economy and farming industry and left the people in possession of land, but starving. See also the famines created by the Soviet Union, and the one caused by the Chinese Communists last century in which 20-40 million people died. It seems inconceivable that people could create a situation in which tens of millions of people die without reason, but we do it again and again. @Pete1950 ! @Pete1950 !
Seems that not everyone in 'the city' is quite so pessimistic anymore. About time people opened their eyes to change and future development. City lobby group comes out fighting for global Brexit in dramatic u-turn
back at you lozx3 :Hilarious: anyhoo, what say you? mp's represent the government the parliament or the majority of people that in my mind that should be sovereign in their constituency?
It's an excellent question, finm. You should thank Elise for all the politics lessons he gives you. Parliamentary Democracy - the Great Oxymoron of the Ages - is deeply flawed. An MP takes his seat in Parliament on the basis of campaign promises he makes. He entirely fails to meet almost every single promise, which means that in theory, he is likely to lose that seat then next time he runs for it. In a relatively small number of constituencies, this may in fact happen, as the Seat swings from on political party to the next. In many constituencies, the incumbent MP could moon his constituency from out the back of his car and the voters will still vote him in - "my party uber alles". If he loses his seat to an opposing party candidate, where is the guarantee the the new MP will honour his campaign promises? Regardless of outcomes, there is nothing in place that ensures that the voters wishes are taken into account - even if it is a majority of voters across the entire country. Theoretically, at no point in the proceedings is an MP compelled to meet the demands of his constituents. He is effectively compelled to give the appearance that he is doing so, or trying to, but that's about it. Compare this to a referendum, be it binding in the literal, legal sense or "for all practical purposes". Parliament is sovereign. The reason for this has its roots in feudal Britain, but instead of lairds and lords, we have "elected politicians". The reason for this is that The Great British Public cannot be trusted to make decisions for themselves - never have been, never will be, which is why Democracy never really got a handhold here in Britain. Anyway, these elected politicians hold much of the power that formally fell to rich landowners and are only barely more answerable to the public for their behaviours and decisions than their direct predecessors. Referendums are a bit of a square peg in a round hole in the UK. They allow the public to take responsibility for themselves in some fashion, which runs entirely counter to the well established principals of f̶e̶u̶d̶a̶l̶i̶s̶m̶ Parliamentary Democracy. If the majority of referendum voters require something, the referendum is the means by which their desires are register and can be the authority by which they are enacted. This undermines the power held by the political elite, and the bigger the issue, the deeper the hole that's dug under Parliament. If the issue at hand does not reach a referendum stage but is instead fire-walled behind the activities of MPs, "political expediency" (which may include keeping the gravy training running on time for said politicians) will win the day. Anyway, TL;DR: MPs run the country as they see fit. Who cares what people actually think? Parliamentary Democracy is the termed used to disguise the oligarchic nature of our "modern" society.
Indeed. There are also the "Parties" where our elected MPs turn over the authority given to them by the people to the "Leadership" who then rule, within their parties and the country in they are in "Power", by decree, who use their enforcers, the aptly named "Whips", to maintain discipline. However one alternative which seems to be taking hold is "Populism" where rabble rousers take control of this system for their own ends and I am not too sure I like where this is going. Either way we are better "out" than "in" a crumbling system that seems to think that the solution to the problems within the EU is more EU.
This populism term is another losers name, just like alt right and soft brexit. All elections are populist as they tend to win by the popular vote. It's always been that way and all of those complaining were elected on the same system they are now complaining about.
