I see a lot more stupid than I see selfish, but I see overwhelming amounts of both, so stuff the lot of them :biggrin:
And when you do have a look, there are some things that really hit you. What hits you, is that bicycling is laid back in Copenhagen, as it is in Amsterdam. Most people ride not very fast sit-up-and-beg bikes which are probably heavy. They are not trying to look cool, or be Bradley Wiggins, they are just getting about. That was also how it was when I was at university: everyone was on a bike, it was just a means of transport (the only means of transport). London isn't like that. It's not bike friendly at all, so if you just bimble around, you're going to get wiped out. There is no real space for cyclists who aren't prepared to mix it with the traffic. I would suggest that it is this urgency and competitiveness which makes many urban cyclists overly selfish and aggressive. The other thing is that the urban cycling demographic is heavily skewed towards white, middle-class professionals, often quite young. These are people who are often competitive by nature and it shows when they cycle. Bearing in mind that London is massively multicultural, you just don't see that reflected in those on bikes. Ride from Battersea to Oxford Circus and you are are in a stream of yuppies. Ride from Kennington to Oxford Circus and you're mainly on your own (not many yuppies in Kennington). I did both, many many times. Why is cycling middle class? I really have no idea.
please elaborate, the cyclist was wearing dark clothing without lights, exactly how does this make the motorist ignorant and selfish???
Just watched the prog again,plenty of twattitude shown by most involved,imo.The silver cab driver was too close too idiot-boy cyclist,the 2 van drivers squeezing matey shouldn't have done it,but he shouldn't have been pratting about in the middle of the road...the list goes on...*yawn*.........cheap television over-dramatising the dangers of road use,all started because a Times journalist got knocked off her bike.No investigation of the circumstances,just the usual media knee jerk when one of theirs gets hurt,i.e,it must be someone elses fault.Sad,but there you go.If being an ar*ehole on the road was a crime,everyone would be in the chokey.You learn by your near-misses,and if you get lucky,you don't act so stupid again...
Morbid but interesting ITO - Road Casualties UK At the end of the day we all need to show a little courtesy - after all , we're the adults here (OK OK some exceptions) and its our children and our responsibility to show by example and not be drawn down to the same level as some of our road users ,,, Although its fekin hard not to bite back
AND how many car drivers do you see without lights (or just side lights) on when it's raining, foggy or dark?
Plenty,but that doesn't make cycling without lights any less stupid.The guy in the unlit car probably won't die because he's forgotten /can't be arsed to turn his lights on.Theres a gazillion things about others to bitch about: one-headlamp cars/trucks too close together/cyclists acting the goat/bus drivers...plenty of muppets to choose from,everywhere,every minute of the day... The thing about being on two wheels,(powered or unpowered),is that a slight mistake can kill or maim you,whether it's the rider themselves or a third party.Presumably,(if you're frequenting this website),everyone on here knows the risks they are taking?.I certainly do..cycling/motorcycling is dangerous,if you can't hack it then don't do it....
All walks of life on the road, be they in cars, on foot, on bikes or on motorbikes, and they all have a varied pace. It's not the slow cyclists I see being lifted into ambulances on most occasions, though.
On reflection the only people on that program who were talking moderation were those who had been either directly involved in a very close call or a fatality or a loved one had. They were the only ones who expressed the thought 'this really isn't worth either dying or killing someone over'.
I don't disagree with what you are saying but I would add that we can swing those odds in our favour through increased observation and better decision taking.
I'm a hardcore Lycra clad cyclist, full carbon bike averaging 34 miles a day......... But when I'm driving by feek do I hate cyclists lol. I sometimes wonder how dumb some cyclists can be given their vulnerability on the road. So I totally understand some of the views on here. I don't always stop at lights particularly up hill as I'm clipped into the pedals however I do exercise a common sense approach, off course it's naughty but we have all jumped the lights at some point if we're honest. The one skill I have learned being a motorbike rider is the constant life saver check and an awareness of my surroundings.
Absolutely100% correct.I ride with the attitude that everyone is out to get me,they are all on the phone while shouting at the kids and lighting a fag just when they are going to change lanes while not indicating...and of course I assume most of them expect me to undertake/filter too fast/ride round them when they get in my way and generally be an anti-social throwback from the Seventies,so I do my best not to disappoint
Just caught up on this after a few freezing rides in town this week - anyone else out cycling? F-ing cold..... frozen roads the whole nine yards.... Occurs to me that Glidd's comments on London competitiveness are bang on - and probably anathema to anyone who hasn't ridden in London. As I rode around these last few days, I realised that I immediately categorise all cyclists I meet in town into two camps a) proper cyclists - who are running at a proper pace, and b) numpties - who are lucky to arrive at their destination at all they are so clueless/dangerous to both themselves and others. The first group of these fall bang into Glidd's grouping (and I guess I am one of these) who are youngish, competitive, ride a lot, have nice kit and are banging out a 30-60 minute ride each way at 20mph+. The pace on a ride home if you end up in a small group can be bloody quick. Way quicker than traffic. Once you hit Richmond Park, with a 20mph limit, everyone is head down flying past the cars. This group is the one I see being generally pretty good on the road, considerate to others and competent. There is a little red light jumping going on when not significant (blank pedestrian crossing when pedestrians all finished) to maintain pace (or you would stop/start every ten yards at times), but otherwise they are pretty good. They are generally very traffic aware too as they ride a lot. There are a few tossers in this group, but honestly, not many. Most are just quick. The second group we all just fly past, wondering how the hell they survive at all. They are a nightmare to all road users. They are slow, wobbly, often no lights, no awareness at all and you wonder how more of them don't end up as pate quite honestly. This group also just ride through all lights usually, seemingly oblivious to the risks they run. I rode past a few these last few days, in the dark freezing fog, without lights, helmets or reflectors, wobbling all over the place. Selfish idiots frankly who risk causing an accident. London commute run through the nicer bits of town is also often a hardware display - for commute bikes, there are a fair number of carbons, titaniums and crit bikes......!
Sorry Cham, but my experience as a car driver are completely the opposite to yours as a rider - it's the faster riders, and especially groups of fast riders, that I see causing the most problems. Slow, wobbly riders are easily sidestepped, but faster riders get in the way far more in my experience. It isn't the speed most of the time, but the attitude. These are the guys that are least likely to indicate their intentions, the least likely to stop for traffic lights and pedestrian crossing, the most likely to lash out at other motorists, the most likely to hit pedestrians and the ones I normally see picking themselves up off the floor. In a group it just gets worse, average speed gives way to flat out racing; I've seen whole peletons flash across pedestrian crossings where cars have already stopped, and should someone get in the way the road rage hits fever pitch. Sorry mate, but I'm only telling you what I see on a daily basis.
