I thought the new 1290 KTM came in 2 guises, and one of them is a 17 inch front wheel ?? Maybe wrong but thought thats what the KTM man told me at Premier bikes ??
Yeah KTM only really has the SuperDuke GT which has a rolling chassis setup more comparable to the non-Enduro Multistrada. If a 17" front wheel is important to you then scratch all their adventure bikes lot off your list. I know this sounds slightly ridiculous, but the other thing that puts me off KTM is the abundance of the colour orange, and even as an accent colour it's still very evident. It's only asthetics and I understand that it's part of the branding, etc, but I f--king hate it. I wish they'd get some wider colour options in their range - almost any colour - but that just doesn't feature orange. I mean if you want a tall sports bike with a big V-twin and absolutely has to have 17" wheels then what choice do you really have? Triumph has some options if I want a triple, BMW has some options if I want a 4. I don't see how any manufacturer can purport to have something comparable to the Multistrada if they keep missing out this one very significant difference.
I used to fret about having a 19 inch wheel on a road bike. Surely it would be ponderous and slow steering? But it isn't. Doesn't feel any different at all. In terms of chassis performance it makes no difference. The only restriction is the reduced tyre choice but that is improving. The SMT has a 17" front and I used to run Metzeler M7RRs on mine which were fantastic and I admit I would like to put some properly sticky sports rubber on the 1190 but I'd be quite happy to do that with a 19" sports tyre rather than a 17" rim. If you don't like orange you are stuffed, though KTM are toning it down lately. I feel the same about Kawasaki green. I hate it.
As noted, SDR/GT are 17" front wheel, SA 1290S is 19", SA 1290R is 21 (w/18" rear). Wheel diameter is one variable in the handling equation along with wheelbase, head angle/trail, CG, weight distribution, etc. I had a brief test ride on an SA 1290S and it felt pretty much the same as my GSw, and both have 19" front. My Multi feels significantly different wrt turn-in and how it corners, with the GSw being a bit "slower" (despite having a shorter wheelbase on the GSw). Orange is actually my favorite color and I wear it most every day. I really want to love a KTM but to-date haven't pulled the trigger.
@Rainman, Please excuse me being dull here as I know nothing about the workings of a PCP deal. What I'm looking at or trying to work out is, as they want £8k off me to P/X within 2yrs, would it be been more economic to get a PCP deal ? Do you pay for servicing and tyres on top of the deal or is it included ?
Mate, real sorry @broke, I meant to press like, will change now, as just for once, was not mocking...Honest....
Your tyres are defo not included in a pcp deal. Sometimes you can have a service plan added. But I wouldn't bother as dealers never service them properly anyway....
PCP is the way to go if you have surplus of money each month and enjoy changing your bike every 2-3 years
Surplus, no, like changing my bike yes Just trying to work out which is lesser (cheaper) of two evils
There's very little in it. They don't include servicing or any parts. For it to be worth it, it really comes down to you. What miles do you do and do you ride in all weathers? If you do high miles and ride all throughout the year then I think PCP is worth looking at because your depreciation can never be worse than your "guaranteed future value". The GFV means you are effectively setting a cap (and quite a low one at that) which so long as you meet some basic and reasonable requirements you will always get that back when you trade in. For example, so long as you keep it serviced and road-worthy they expect a bike to have some wear and tear and that it will pick up scratches in the process - so any scratch under 1" in length will not affect anything. That's written into your contract. Over 3 years you'll be able to put 18,000 miles on it without any fear of any further depreciation, and any over that you get charged at 7p per mile (£70 per 1K miles) which isn't terrible either. If, on the other hand, if you don't ride in all weathers and do less than the annual mileage allowance then I wouldn't go near a PCP deal because your trade in should be worth more than your guaranteed future value. Tri-options (which I think is the standard Blackhorse package) is good because it's just a straight finance deal with 3 options on how to end it. Hand it back, pay the GFV/balance and keep it, or increase your monthly payments to actually put some capital against the loan so it's paid off by the end date. Think of it like an interest free mortgage, only your house is a depreciating asset. You're literally paying the minimum every month - the balance of the bike plus the depreciation plus the interest. If you elect to then you're literally only paying interest and depreciation, or pay more each month and own it after covering the 4.7% APR, which is competitive. Remember, the GFV only comes into play when you actually just hand it back. There is nothing to stop you refinancing the balance of the loan and keeping it or selling it privately, in which case the GFV is meaningless. I know a guy that earns really decent money when he's working but can have big gaps between jobs and customers frequently insist on 60 days before payment. Average it out over a year he can afford pretty much anything he wants but cash-flow is a bitch. He does less than average mileage and doesn't ride in the winter, so what he does is get a PCP deal so he can pay the bare minimum and be assured that his bike won't be a noose around his neck when he's not working. He also puts by an amount equivalent to the monthly sum to pay it off in a savings account as and when his customers actually pay him. He typically manages to have it paid off at two years whereby he settles the finance early (and saves a bit of money there) and then has a go at selling it privately so he doesn't get a kicking from the dealer, or eventually trades it in bike if it looks like it might be a bitch to sell - depending on it's condition, etc. The worst he is ever out of pocket is the interest cost, plus a smaller amount of depreciation as there isn't a slice going to a dealer, unless his bike is a dog after two years.
The only surplus you need to cover is the interest rate. Same as any other finance deal. It's just finance, but typically you're not paying enough off to own it. You're totally able to increase your payments and have more capital in your bike at the end of the term, or just pay the full monthly amount and own it. The trouble seems to come at trade in. A lot of people just look at their "Guaranteed Future Value" and think "that's what the dealer is going to give me", which is just wrong. If you've left it until the last day of your finance then the dealer definitely has you over a barrel and knows they're only obligated to give your the GFV to cover your finance and that's all. If you want to change before the end of the deal then your bike is just a trade-in, the same as any other trade-in, and the dealer will no doubt try and get it off you for the least amount possible. That's their business. And "profit" is not a dirty word. If dealers didn't make money then they'd all go out of business and you wouldn't have motorcycles available to buy. That said, there are things you can do to limit how much you give them - like settle early, pay more than the absolute minimum and pay off the balance yourself and sell it privately.
If you're insistent on having new bikes every couple of years the cheapest way possible then don't look at PCP or any kind of finance for that matter. Buy new for cash and sell it privately - that's the only way it is cheaper. No magical finance deal can compete with that, and that's all there is to it, unless it's interest free and you're going to pay it off completely and own it at the end. The trouble that I've found is that when you're selling any vehicle privately which has a value of over £10K, it's an amount of money where the prospective buyer doesn't want to take a punt on the quality of the vehicle they're about to commit to. They need some level of confidence and will generally turn to a dealer so they get a warranty, etc, which they won't get from you. So whilst we're talking about higher value bikes then selling privately is an absolute lottery and you get people just coming to kick the tyres, or worse. To many people advertising a high value bike for sale is like putting up an advert inviting people to come and rob you.
Not quite. The depreciation is exactly the same as with any trade in at a dealer - it is what it is, depending on condition, mileage, etc, plus the dealer leaving some room for their mark-up when they resell it. The problem is that we tend to think that the depreciation and the dealer's cut are the same thing, when they're not, and you have the ability to separate the two by settling it yourself and selling privately. The guaranteed future value only has any significance if you're just handing it back, which almost no one does, but dealers also tend to use it as their starting point for a trade-in price, because they know they can't give you anything lower than that. It's up to you whether you let them or not.
I disagree. A good example is a fella offered 9k (8k cost to change) on a 15m old bike. Run that bike for 3 years, it will have a GFV of c8.5k after 3 years. Dealer dependent, obviously, but just an example where handing back at the end offer best/safest option
Leave the "safest" part out of it - everyone has their own levels of risk that they're happy to live with, but if we just focus on the most equitable deal then that's just incorrect. If you just hand it back then you're an idiot for taking the dealers first offer or you're in financial trouble. If the dealer wasn't giving him a competitive trade in then he could have settled the finance directly and then sold it privately. Absolutely no reason that he could not have done that, unless he had no means to pay the final balance or the GFV. If he'd only paid the minimum amount then they are the same figure. GFV represents a worst case value scenario. Remember that when a finance company will takes that bike off you they just put it into the trade - and that won't be at a loss or they would running at a loss across every deal they write up. The dealer will take that bike off the finance company (because they own it until it's settled) and sell on again. If you hand it in direct to the dealer then they just take the bike in as a purchase and take what they would have paid you and settle your finance instead - happy days for dealer as they just bought a used bike for the lowest possible price. The finance company is happy to do that because then they don't have to process the bike at all. It's the easiest way and the dealer will put no barriers in your way because they want the bike at the best price they can possibly get it for, which is the GFV, if you let them. In all cases, you are not obligated to hand it back to a dealer or the finance company unless it's the end of the term and you've got no way to pay the balance. If you settle the finance, which you can do over the phone direct to the finance company with a credit card, then it's yours to do as you wish - trade in, sell it privately, whatever. Do that with a credit card and you've got a couple weeks where it's effectively interest free, provided you clear the balance in time, so that might give you a bit of time to sell it privately. You might even be able to do a 0% balance transfer with that card to another card giving you even more time - some cards will give you 3 months or more 0% interest on your balance transfer. If you plan it and you're happy to put in a bit of leg work then there are potentially lots of options available that don't mean you have to hand the bike back and walk away. Selling privately, if you're happy to do so, will give you a better yield. If more people did that then dealers wouldn't just try and get the bike off you for the GFV as their opening gambit. What else is a dealer going to do but offer you the lowest amount possible? Having your pants pulled down is a choice, you just have to use your head to avoid it.
Interesting ! So, the best bike to buy on a PCP would be a heavily discounted one ie one of those KTM’s with a £5k discount or one of the pre reg Multistradas on offer. Then do a PCP over 2 years, not the usual 3 years. The GFV would only be a couple of grand less than what you paid. Mind you, they probably don’t offer the same rates on a pre registered bike.
