Hello all!, if this thread belongs somewhere else...please move it, moderators. I couldn't find a specific ECU-related forum... With that out of the way, I am looking for some advice. I'm running an Arrow exhaust w/ the optional cat and a modified DB killer installed. Bike ran more or less OK with the exhaust installed on the stock mapping. I picked up a Tuneboy to make some improvements and also gain cruise control. It was a nice all-around improvement and I was quite content. Until now. I finished up the 15k service a few days ago. Valve, timing belts, coolant, oil, spark plugs, etc. Also took the time to do a throttle sync with the TB software and replaced the stock air filter with an MWR. I found a huge pile of debris in the filter that was obviously carried in by some small rodent. More than likely under the previous owner's watch (I bought the bike last year with 5900 miles on it). The bike now surges and bucks like crazy under cruise and pops on decel. Getting back on the throttle at the apex, the fueling feels too lean. There's a definite softness at first. If I'm working the engine it feels great. Pussyfooting around, it's unbearable (i.e. traffic). I've tried the Arrow, Termi, and SC trim files. Where can I find more trim files? Does anyone have any suggestions to a better starting point? If I need to manually richen up the fueling, so be it....but I'd like to start with the best baseline I can. And before you ask...no leaks present in the intake or exhaust. Used half a can of starting fluid around the heads/throttlebody/airbox and couldn't find a damn thing.
I,d go back and recheck everything you have done. 9 times out of ten if it ran alright before and after all the work is done it doesn't then good chance it's something done in the work process. Worst thing you can do is start altering the mixture to compensate for a problem introduced when working on the bike. Probably not want you want to hear! Good luck.
Are you sure you have not got one of the cams 1 tooth out. That makes them pop backfire sometimes. Sorry don,t mean to undermine your ability.
The biggest thing I cannot revert to would be the blocked air filter. I'll have to grab a picture off my phone later tonight to show, but there was a TON of stuff inside this filter. Between the paper filter flowing less than the MWR and the stuff left inside, the engine is definitely breathing more freely now. But I appreciate your comments and agree that coincidences are unlikely. The backfiring isn't consistent and seems to be a large function of throttle position (whether completely closed or cracked ever so slightly). The cams were marked before the belts were removed and it all went back together the same way. Idles the same (if not better now that the throttles are sync'd) and definitely pulls harder with the fresh tune up. To that end, fuel consumption seems unaffected and it ran pretty damn well at the race track over the weekend. Without doing any datalogging, it seems like my issue is in the TPS range of less than 10%. No issues while accelerating or cruising under moderate throttle.
hmmm well if the clearances were right and unaltered? Belts engine rotated several times all marks line up each time? If that's good then only other thing is tuneboy balance recheck? Can't see the filter being the problem.To be outside the parameters of the fuel injection system to cause problems you describe seems unlikely. Especially as you have used a altered map for a freeer breathing system. So no exhaust air leak problems? Which leads back to the beginning work done on bike. Afraid this is as far as my thinking goes!
Any chance the MWR filter isn’t seated ? K&N replacements came with additional seals that must be stuck on each end of the filter ... assuming the MWR is a replacement for the triangle like shaped stock element and not one of the funky types that did away with the airbox lid on the 2v Did you also to a throttle reset via the TB SW?
The openers were good, but the closers were all adjusted. Belts went back on correctly and rotating the engine didn't vary the alignment. I'm pretty sure all is well. The MWR is wider than the OEM filter to make up for the fact that the factory let it float (and leak air around it). The filter is impressively constructed and has nice foam end caps that seem to take up the interfaces. It seemed to fit pretty well when I buttoned it all back up. Yes, I did a throttle reset. Of course, I have no way of telling if it actually took. Resetting the desmo service minder in the software didn't actually reset it...
I would check the closers then you know mechanical side is ok.Things would seem to be point to the tuneboy. No first hand experience. I would have to take it to a dealer to check balance, map etc can see no other option.
The closers are good and were re-measured after it was all back together again. I'm confident in my work. Pretty straight forward. My nearest dealer is over an hour away and is booked out for 6 weeks on service. That's the trend around here... My inclination is that the map is too lean. I can remedy this myself with some time and effort, but was hoping someone would chime in with a "hey, I had some similar issues, here's what I did..."
If the bike was ok before, like others, I'd be checking what's been done. Service parts, even the filter, won't/shouldn't have that great an effect. When you said you'd sync'd the throttles, how? There's no need to do this as the injection runs MAP sensors for each cylinder. The balance bar shouldn't be touched. Any fine tuning is done thru diagnostics using MAP sensor readings and tweaking the air bypass screws. A TPS reset is rarely needed on FBW systems and if so, is usually done with the APS reset also. Aside from that, my first thought was a tight closing clearance once warmed through.
The MWR flows more air than the stock paper filter, which was horrendously clogged with debris. So the end result is that I'm flowing a LOT more air into the engine than I was before. Definitely feels like a lean surge. The bike generally behaves best right on cold start when the A/F mixture is rich. The throttles were absolutely without question out of sync. The Tuneboy software has the ability to read out the MAP sensor readings from each cylinder. It's a graphical display only, but it gives a good visual cue that you can use to guide adjustment of the air screws and linkage. Once the bars are even, the balance is good. I have some screenshots I took during the process, but they are on my home computer and I'll have to upload them this evening. As to the how it was balanced...turn air screws in on both cylinders while bike was running. Adjust linkage until MAP readings were as close as they were going to get and then did the 'fine' adjustment with the air screws. Without question, the bike idles smoother with the balance complete. Just as every other bike I've done this with. Now that said, if there is a better way to adjust the throttle sync on this bike that affects rideability, I'm all ears. There is nothing in the factory service manual, so I went from muscle memory on this.
Understand the filter theory, but the MAP and o2 sensors should adjust/trim to compensate (assuming the o2's are still fitted). The balancing, with the exception of adjusting the tie bar is bang on. I've not used the TB software, but have seen bikes balancing on vacuum with no account being made for the MAP sensors being fitted. I'd back track, especially on the valve clearances, cam timings etc.
The O2 sensors are disabled on account of the Tuneboy. That's been that way since before the service... I should probably reiterate (or state if I didn't already) that the bike runs VERY well north of 5K RPM and at any load higher than in my trouble regions. Without question, throttle response and power are improved after the service. So this is just a low load/RPM thing that drives me nuts in traffic or around town.
Why don’t you flash back to standard with o2 sensors re-enabled - If it doesn’t sort itself out and compensate for the increased flow then you know it’s another problem Should only take 10 mins or so
I had some time a couple nights ago and was able to poke around on the bike. Re-checked the throttle body sync and found everything to be good. I even played with the bleed screws to experiment if their positions made a noticeable difference (spoiler alert - they didn't). I reflashed the bike with new trim files. Ditched the Arrow, Termi, and SC maps. Used the 'Zero Trim' (stock), STD, and Mivv. I chose these files based on a cursory review of the trim values in the offending regions. They were all noticeably richer. Surprise, surprise, the added fuel helps...a LOT! The stock map eliminated at least half of the surging, bucking, and popping. The STD map is richened up quite a bit in many areas and feels better yet. Not awesome, mind you...but certainly livable. So yeah...fueling is the issue. I'm making progress. But still needs more love. To be continued...
What was your outcome with this please? I have a similar issue that I'm trying to solve after installing Tuneboy, I'm sure it's only getting the mapping right but just curious as to what you used.
I was able to try a few different standard maps and find one that worked out pretty well. Still not as nice down low as I'd like, but VASTLY better than where I started. And for that point, still better down low that the factory mapping with the stock exhaust. Unfortunately, I cannot remember for the life of me what map I'm using now...only that it was one of the standard canned maps. Hope that helps...
