Totally agree with what you are saying. I think Power Commander is the way forward until I can get the ECU remapped which I think will be early in the new year. Like you say its piece of mind, I know the Power Commander is expensive but still cheaper than sorting a 'buggered' engine! I can always sell the Commander in the future? Also get a K&N filter at the same time.
I emailed Powercomander tech department earlier asking for advice on which model, set up, what to expect etc, I'll let you know their response, if I get one!.
Just found this Hatrick, booster plug richens the mixture, a lot cheaper than a powercomander, or you could use 02 eliminators which are only £25, you'd need to dyno again to check it had worked but you'd want to do that after fitting a powercomander, if it's only to tide you over to the new year it's a cheaper option, Powercomander would be a "nicer" option though I guess.
Yes, I did look at the Booster plug & the o2 eliminators but I think the Power Commander probably is a better option like you say.
actually it may not be!, I received some info a few minutes ago that seems to suggest a Powercomander is not the best solution, I'm just waiting for the authors permission to post his explanation on forums and then I'll share it, but for the time being suffice to say that Powercomanders own website carries a warning re using it on closed loop systems, the scrambler is closed loop.
OK so now I have permission from Jens at Booster plug to use the explanation he sent me, see below, basically it says that apart from at low and transitional revs the closed loop lambda system will control the Air Fuel Ratio regardless of what exhaust/filter is fitted to the scrambler, so I think it's hard to explain the AFR results you got on the dyno, unless you have a fault with one of your lambda sensors or the dyno is faulty, anyway have a read below. On 30 Sep 2017, at 22:31, Jens Lyck <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Mark, The internet is a great source for information, but it can be bloody hard to separate true and false information - not everyone out there is an expert The BoosterPlug will cover all combinations of aftermarket filters and exhausts (With or without the cat installed) - as long as you keep the O2 (Lambda) sensor installed in the exhaust. (Which you should for several other reasons.) Here is why this is possible: Most aftermarket filters and exhausts will flow a lot more air at higher RPM, but at low RPM's the difference between the resistance in the original exhaust and the aftermarket system is minimal - so in low RPM conditions, the AFR (Air/Fuel Ratio) is almost the same. In a modern fuel injected bike, there's no risk of damaging the engine by running it too lean when you install an aftermarket exhaust or K&N filter - because the O2 sensor in the exhaust will adjust the mixture back to the original AFR in all closed loop situations (Higher RPM) (Constant medium and high RPM are closed loop operation, and the O2 sensor is in charge here. The BoosterPlug is active in open loop conditions which is idle, low RPM and during acceleration and engine braking. - See theBoosterPlug.com website for a full explanation on open loop and closed loop) But as the aftermarket parts will flow slightly more air in low RPM conditions too, the drivability will be even worse than on the stock bike. Normally we see the open loop AFR go from around 14,4:1 to 14,5:1 with the aftermarket exhausts, and now you really need the small controlled fuel enrichment from the BoosterPlug to restore the smooth throttle action and to prevent the engine to stall easily. Because the AFR difference (between the stock system and the aftermarket parts) is relatively small in open loop conditions,makes it possible for the BoosterPlug to cover all combinations of exhausts and filters on the bike. (The BoosterPlug is only active in open loop) You are far worse off if you installed a Power Commander, where the O2 sensor is removed/bypassed and then changed the exhaust. Now you would have to dyno and set up the Power Commander correctly again to avoid running the engine too lean all the time - with the risk of damaging your engine. So the fact that the BoosterPlug works in cooperation with the O2 sensor in the exhaust makes it possible for our device to cover all combinations of exhausts and filters. Sorry if this got a bit technical. Best Regards Jens Lyck BoosterPlug.com Slotsgade 3 4880 Nysted Denmark
Thanks, now I am confused! Surely though, if I have a Power Commander fitted and set up on the Dyno then it all should be good?
Yes, provided you don't change anything after it has been set up I.e. Change the air filter, what isn't making sense though is your dyno shows a lean condition at higher revs, that's where the closed loop system should adjust the AFR back to safe levels regardless of changing the exhaust, so off the top of my head there's a few possibilities. 1. There's a fault with the Dyno (poorly calibrated) 2.there's a fault with the Lambda sensors. 3.the arrow exhaust is so poorly matched to the bike that when the ECU goes back to the standard map closed loop even its richest map can't compensate for the exhaust. Ideally you could take the bike back to the Dyno with the OE can fitted, do a run, then fit the Arrow can and do another run and compare the results, depends how much messing about you want to do!
Here's Power commanders response. The PC5 (PN: 14-029) fits the Ducati Scrambler. You can find it here: http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/products.aspx?mk=5&mdl=3124&yr=3125 Our predeveloped map #M14-029-002 is the closest to your setup that we currently have available in our map database library. The air flow characteristics between the two setups should be similar enough for the map to work for you as a starting point. Let us know if this map gives you any obvious fueling problems, and what/when those problems occur and we might be able to help you to make further adjustment. An ideal option is to have the bike dyno tuned and custom mapped specifically for your bike's setup and or your personal riding style and fueling preference at one of our approved tuning centers in your local area if you want to get it 100% optimized. Also, if you have the PC5 unit you could utilize the Auto-tune accessory to make a custom tune. Let me know if you have any further questions. Regards, Chris Kelly Dynojet Research Inc. 2191 Mendenhall Dr. Suite 105 North Las Vegas, NV 89081 1-800-992-4993 Toll Free: (800) 992-4993 Fax: (702) 399-1431
Decided to have my bike run again on a different Dyno, I am happier now, the results seem to be good.
Yes, fuelling looks very similar to mine , they run lean, most bikes do now, here’s my dyno, Scorpion exhaust, no other mods.
I have just had a bespoke stainless exhaust made for my Sled by John Campbell exhausts. It looks cool pick it up tomorrow review to follow:
Just collected the bike, What a difference!!! great sound not too obtrusive but sounds as a Ducati should. Performance and running unaffected and whilst these things are "personal opinion" looks stunning. John and Dave at Campbell exhausts have hand made this for me at a a fantastic price when compared to some after market exhaust suppliers. They can now make these exhausts from the pattern and have a couple of other designs. After the first ride I'm still grinning.
My hyper always run with a hesitation just off throttle in fact quite jerky. Got a dyno run at BSD in stock form and it was very very lean upto 8k then very rich. After i installed the 100mm trumpets and K&N filters and full "no cat" MIVV exhaust it was near on un-ride able esp on low throttle and in the 1st 3 gears. Mark removed the lambda's and remapped it and i gained 10hp at the rear wheel and 9ft so in my opinion bespoke mapping is the only way to go full stop ....
You tube video of sound doesn't do it justice it sounds just right. I'll do one without baffles to. John also does the exhaust in matt and black as well as in a sidewinder and pepper pot style.
Bought my Hyper secondhand in 2008, came complete with twin Termis and ECU to suit. It was a little hesitant just off throttle, as you describe, so I can't imagine what the stock setup must be like. In 2009 I removed the cat by fitting Zard downpipes, added Ducshop stacks / K&Ns and did some dyno runs. Tried the DP ECUs designed for Twin Termi v. single Termi and the latter was best with AFR pretty much spot on, tho' maybe a little rich at the top end IIRC. TPS reset, end result was a pretty smooth throttle response, extra grunt and lovely induction roar, all of which I was happy with! Didn't think it could get much better but a couple of years later I came across a secondhand PCV + Autotune, complete with custom map to suit my set up... This is just brilliant. Not been back on the dyno but it pulls like a train from anywhere, no hesitation. I subsequently fitted a long range tank for a trip around Morocco - which meant losing the stacks and having much smaller K&Ns. The Autotune took it in its stride. So, agree that bespoke mapping is the way to go if you're happy with your current state of tune but PCV with Autotune is a good alternative - and especially if you want to play around with tuning / alternative intake/exhaust set ups.
Hi, The stock pipe on my DS drives me nuts at stops me placing my oversized feet square on the pegs. Does the Campbell option give your right foot more clearance ? Also dare I ask how much one of thos babies costs ? Cheers Nick W.
Morning, New member here, I have a 2020 Desert Sled and will be fitting a Leo Vince exhaust later today, if it's not raining, so I'll let you know how it goes. I say if it's not raining as I want to ride the bike for a good hour or so before the change over to see if there is any difference other than weight and sound.
