This might be an odd post as I assume a huge percentage of you are riders with years of experience so this probably has zero relevance to you. But as someone who has wanted a Ducati for years and years (over 20 of them) but has only just got around to doing something about I find myself somewhat angered at the state of motorcycle training I've experienced recently. I did a CBT and theory test 18 months ago with a view to going straight to a DAS course, but stuff got in the way and it wasn't until this year that I could look at actually getting on with it. Having never ridden a big bike or anything since the CBT I was less than confident about going straight to the DAS course - but I found quite a few companies who were more than happy to take my money and stick me straight on a 600. I took a moment and decided to retake the CBT and get some basic confidence. The CBT went fine and I now have the grand total of 2 days (over 18 months) of riding. I made this VERY clear to the company I signed up with, but still they were more than happy to take my money, put me on a 600. I expected that we'd start off road (not mud and rocks), get used to the weight of the bike, do some basic skills stuff - re-doing much of the CBT work. But no we did a bit of gentle backwards and forwards at the kerb side and then straight onto the roads of London. Having gone from a day on a Grom to a day on a proper 125 to a 600 it's fair to say I wasn't super confident. I did pick it up quite quickly and experienced equal measures of the enjoyment of riding with concern that i wanted to learn motorcycle skills. We did spend some time later that day in a carpark doing some of the Mod 1 test skills - but there wasn't the space for the faster exercises. I've always worked to the mantra "Drill it to kill it". Whether it's swimming, cycling, running, street skating - whatever. To do something correctly there's technique and if you drill the technique enough you'll get muscle memory and you'll get better. I made my concerns clear, but there was no two way understanding. I've encountered a lot of motorcyclists who can be a bit arrogant about their years of doing it, but we've all got to start somewhere and when I'm paying money for training that's what I want and I don't want to effing kill myself. Anyway, day two more road riding, followed by 45mins in a carpark around cones and off to the test centre. So my total experience is now three days on 125's and a day and a half on a 600. I failed the Mod 1 on the emergency stop (second to last exercise). No other errors. We rode back home, through rush hour traffic as though nothing had happened. No debrief, no analysis. I couldn't get an email reply when I contact them the next day and had to make several calls before finally getting a reply. During this time I had a permanent dead leg from kicking myself so hard. I've been obsessing about doing the training and getting a bike everyday for the last two years and it just wasn't happening how i'd imagined. I made it clear that I didn't understand what I'd done wrong technically and wanted to do a day of technique work to fix it. But they couldn't offer me a day of training, just another early ride to retake the Mod 1. I only discover what I'd done wrong by trawling through youtube technique videos. So… We ride out to the test centre. Everything goes well again, but i'm nervous about the emergency stop as i've not had any more practise and the test surface is wet. I pass the speed trap at 52kph, but not wanting to ditch it i'm too slow to stop and therefore fail. Another £125 pissed up the wall. I wasn't surprised - if you do the same thing everytime, you can't expect to get a different result. My instructor tells me that we can try again (Mod 1) next week, but they can't offer me any more training as they're booked until the end of November. I don't understand how I can spend the best part of a grand, but only have two failed Mod 1 tests to show for it and no communication about how we're going to fix it. I've said it before, it's not a difficult test for a confident rider and in my view a company should be 100% sure that the rider is a 100% confident and 100% able to pass the test easily before putting them in for it. There shouldn't be any doubts about passing. I'm not sure where I'm going with this post/rant. The take-home message might be I'm shit at riding so why bother. The shit part (based on two fails) might be true at this moment, (but I can ride in London rush hour traffic with a reasonable amount of confidence), and as my wife put it, you've gone from never having ridden to a couple of days on a big bike - what do you expect? I just know that i'm somewhat urked by the situation and I want to fix it. My plan B is to buy a 125, ride it over winter and pick up again next year with someone else. I could do without the additional expense but it seems like the logical option. I'm not looking for a witch hunt with this post as calling round other companies the story is the same - "we're fully booked but could probably squeeze you in for a day riding with a test". There seems to be no understanding that I want proper technique training and practise. Not a quick route to getting a pass.
I'd say buy a cheap 125 and practice the techniques yourself, emergency stop is always something you need to practice as I remember my instructor pushing me until the back end stepped right out. I then knew how far I could push it on the test (was only a 125 test at the time) paying for an early start before a test sounds sub-optimal, but they are happy to take your cash, good luck and don't give up
I'd go plan B also. You'll gain fantastic experience riding a cheap 125 over the winter time with less than perfect road conditions. You'll be able to practice to your heart's content also and as long as it's a cheapie, you won't mind so much if you drop it. You'll feel so much better come next year with the gained experience that you'll then be itching to get on the 600 or something with a little bit more power. Meantime the conditions will have improved also further increasing your confidence.
I would say get a cheap off road type bike find somewhere off road to use it and then spend time riding it in all conditions, you will learn everything ie throttle control, clutch use, balance, slow turns, handling loss of traction, riding with your front wheel not in line with your back wheel, smooth operation of all aspects of the bike ...20mph off road feels like 30mph on road if you get my drift? It’s fun relatively safe and you will learn skills you will not learn on the road, we got a 250 and a monkey and my mrs 5’1 ish is competent after just a few hours this week and about 2 hours 3 years ago ..she actually prefers the the 250 the bigger bike to the monkey which has shocked me ...you should buy the monkey it’s mega get online search out off road venues get the skills in safety and you’ll be grinning like Cheshire Cat doing it ... some on here don’t road ride just track, plenty on here off road ride.
As an ex CBT/DAS instructor I would say that pottering about on a 125 a little will keep your hand in and improve general confidence. Clocking up heavy use may have a negative effect as far as test passing is concerned, in that you can settle in to bad habits that you shouldnt have. The main thing to remember is that the test is about riding a certain way, not necessarily about the ability to ride. (I have taught kids who were junior trials and motocross competitors and had skills I was envious of, but they didnt pass on test day.) If you feel that you have the self discipline to stick to the methodology you have been taught, then go for it. If not, then it may be advisable to stay within a structured riding scenario till the test is done. There is nothing wrong with changing schools or maybe just requesting a different instructor if you don't feel they are listening to your needs. You are the customer after all.
You really need to learn to a ride a motorcycle and let a lot of the process become second nature. Do it on a cheap 125 but don't kid yourself that a 125 is easy and safer than a big bike To be honest if you don't know what you did wrong you need a lot more practice. The only difference between a 125 and a 1260 is the weight and speed. All the other dangers of motorcycling are common to both
Thanks for the feedback - all very helpful and cemented my thinking that a 125 is the way to go for a few months. I don't for one moment think that it's 'safer or easier' than a big bike - having one means I can actually ride on my own rather than just think about it or ride it in the confines of a day's tuition. I'm a technique obsessive and have been reading plenty of DAS/DVSA related books about the way they want to see you riding and have no intention of short cutting or consciously falling into bad habits. I think that's the only positive of coming to this at 50 - other than larking round a field in Yorkshire on a twist and go in my teens - I've no motorbike experience and poor riding habits to forget.
I'm assuming you drive a car so have "road sense" ? I've no doubt learing to ride these days in London might not be the easiest of training grounds, nothing like the roads around Manchester in 1973 when I was learning !! My son started his quest to obtain his bike license about 12 months ago. He's 30 & has been driving a car since he was 17. I consider him to be a very careful driver, at least he is when I'm with him ! He's had a couple of accidents in cars, one very early in his "career", which I think was a wake up call & another a while ago when someone ran into the back of him. Basically what I would think is a fairly common story these days. I bought him a Yamaha MT125 so he could learn on something reliable. He did the CBT & started using the bike to get to work. We found a local guy who does motorcycle training & he has been really good. He takes things at my son's pace & always has a debrief when they finish a lesson. My son too failed his first attempt at the part 1 of the test, but passed on the second attempt a week or so ago. He now has the final part to do in a few weeks. The twelve months he's being doing this now might be a long time compared to some, but in fairness to him he has also been studying for work related exams. Basically what I am saying here is there is no substitute for experiance, having a 125 of your own to ride as & when you want is the best way, (in my opinion) to gain that experiance. Inconjunction with that though you need to find a good instructor who has your best interest at heart, not just some company that is just interested in taking your money. While finding said instructor might not be easy it is obvious you are not happy with the clowns you are currently using so you really need to find someone you can "jell" with. Maybe someone on this forum knows someone who could help or there are social forums that could help, (I'm not a great user of such things, but some of my mates are & it seems you can find out pretty much anything you want). The danger is you get disheartened/fed up & give up, which would be a great shame as you clearly want to enjoy riding. Stick at it, get a 125 of your own & use it. The more you use it the more confident you will become. Whilst doing this find a new instructor & hopefully your full license will follow soon.
It’s a strange system to say the least. A friend has recently gone through the process and the lack of actual time on a bike astonishes me. The riding schools don’t seemed to be setup to provide instruction outside of the standard packaged routes to test. Living out in the sticks has it’s advantages as we still have access to disused air fields and traffic free quiet roads that you can come to to to practice basic bike handling - and as you say - drill and drill until it becomes natural. Emergency stops, manoeuvring through cones, u turns, are all things that you could ace with just a day of repetition in such an environment. The rest is just time in the seat to build confidence. Every single new rider who passes their test is still learning for many years after - and if you don’t ride a lot and stop for the winter then each year you don’t begin quite where you left off the previous year! Even after having my licence for years and riding on the road for many thousands of miles I found that going on a rider skills course forced me to practice things that rarely come up in a day to day ride and I would recommend that all riders do something like it every so often. Several years ago I did a training day at Cadwell run by the Lincolnshire Road Safety Partnership which offered a subsidised day of rider skills followed by some controlled time on track. Hopp rider training provide the instruction and they run a similar skills day in Essex - minus the track time https://www.essex-fire.gov.uk/Road_Safety/FireBike/FireBike_Advanced_Machine_Skills_Course/. They also run special instructor led ‘better riding days’ at Cadwell twice a year - this is 100% track time but in a very safe and controlled environment for road riders who want to build confidence - you are on track in groups of 6 to an instructor and it’s a great way for novice riders to get our there in a super safe way https://hrtridertraining.co.uk/ I did one on my Triumph and it’s what led me ultimately to buying the Ducati and getting into regular track riding. Track riding has taken everything to a different level. No amount of skills training and practice will give you the feel for just how hard a bike can brake and turn the way time on track does. With hot tyres and repetition of the same corners time after time you can start to get a level of confidence that you will never achieve on the road. Regardless of your intended use of a bike or how inexperienced you are - getting on track will make you a better rider.
Welcome along is Aylesbury too far to travel ? I have a guy local ( actually a postman ) who runs locally trading and have put a couple of people through him - really good and calls a spade a shovel ! You will have fun and learn but also agree get a 125 and have some fun, spend less time worrying about learning and enjoy - you will be learning all the time
Reading through your posts, its fairly clear you know what is needed to remedy the situation - saddle time on a bike. I'd also reccomend a trail bike as it might be more fun to do some green laning than just London street riding in dark cold winter? Also try and scout out a car park thats not used on a Sunday and practise riding around the cones, doing U turns in the road width & emergency stops in the required distances - your wife/ son/ mate could maybe bring the road cones by car for you? I feel your dissapointment at the instructors and the wasted cash. You are right to say that your needs are not being met. That said I wonder if the bike training has all been closed due to lockdown CV19 and these guys have an enormous back log of clients and debts to work through. Its not meant as an excuse, but it might be part of the reason? Lastly I admire your resolve. You are not going to quit in frustration. There's a very good chance you will have a licence and a Ducati by next summer!
Short update. Bought a Duke 125 yesterday, pick it up tomorrow. I'm still waiting to hear back from the training company I've been using, but plan to settle up and say goodbye. I'll be drilling the crap out of slow speed stuff and technical stuff over the next few months - got a place nearby which is quiet and ideal for this - along with plenty of general riding. I'll pick up the DAS course again in spring and hope to be trading the Duke in for a Monster next summer. I really wanted to short cut my way to a big bike, but with the wonderful power of hindsight it's clear that it's just not a clever idea and to be honest I feel much calmer about it all now.
Where do you live? Either get your test pass ASAP and look for an IAM/RoSPA group, or find a sympathetic Observer from an IAM group in your area. I applaud your wanting to learn. Get these books: Mind Driving by Stephen Haley, Not The Blue Book by Dave Jones, Motorcycle Roadcraft (HMSO), How to be a better Rider (or Motorcyclist (the older version)) by IAM. If it's machine control you want, got to i2i https://www.i2imca.com/ or Hopp Rider Training.
I did my DAS in 2004 without any prior riding experience. Was a five-day course from CBT on a 125 to test on a 600. The only requirement was that I passed my Theory and Hazard Awareness Tests before booking the DAS. Unfortunately, I failed my first test for leaving an indicator on at one point, something I hadn't done until then, otherwise it was a confident ride and I got through the things I was most nervous about without any issues; the emergency stop and u-turn. I wasn't aware I had left an indicator on too long until I got back to the test centre and was told I failed, so I was really disappointed. My second test was a few weeks later and I had the same examiner and he took me virtually the same route, so I was thinking I mustn't mess this up again. I went on to stall my emergency stop and left a fiddly roundabout at the wrong exit on the way back to the test centre, so I thought I had blown it. I was waiting for him to say I failed, but to my surprise I passed. I handled the emergency stop stall correctly and didn't make the mistake of not doing the lifesaver as part of dealing with the situation, so only got a minor for my stall, and the wrong exit only got me a minor. I was so relieved. My advice is to try not to put too much pressure on yourself and don't overthink things. When both of those crept in for me, it took my focus away from just doing the various things naturally.
