Lockdown has had one silver lining... Time to think and take action on THAT project. The one I've always wanted to do. It is well known that design (and specifically art) is subjective. Classic design, however usually works well and looks good too, so there’s little to argue with there. I’ve ridden Ducati’s for 20 years. I know some of you have been addicted for longer than that and others have only just started, so I hope this thread appeals to you all. It’s a personal project based on my own preferences, so I don’t expect everyone to agree. I’m certain this will cause a few debates, but then that’s part of the fun! The Background: The 90’s for me was the golden decade of Ducati. Galluzi (pre ST2) and Tamburini to name two of the top designers were in their prime designing the 900ss (and derivatives) the Monster and of course the 916. Inevitably someone having experienced the ‘Ducati’s design decade’ of the 90’s will be drawn to the late 80’s / early 90’s brutal elegance of the 851 / 888. An honest, confident and handsome machine. Its racetrack success only adding to its appeal. However, there was a catch. All this beauty and appeal came at a price (literally)… and with reliability issues. We push these aside, because no one (or thing) is perfect. My appreciation of the brand included a 748. Thoroughly enjoyed it, but sold it. I had (and still have) Monsters. The early air-cooled ones. However, like others I lusted after the 851 (specifically the SP3). So being a handy kind of person and a designer, I thought of the perfect personal project. The Project: 851’s are expensive. Not always what they seem in the ads and were built in the days before Ducati got its shit together at the factory. So while browsing the acres of eBay, I found a 2 valve water-cooled 1997 Ducati ST2 and thought. What if I take one of the historically most repulsive looking, over designed, thousand piece fairing-ed overweight donkey’s Ducati have produced (personal opinion) and make it beautiful? How? By taking the bike back to its bones and putting a damn fine suit on it. Italian tailored to be precise. I know the 851, was a 4 valve. But the ST4 was a much later model, shared none of the 851 geometry and was too expensive and only marginally less ugly, therefore harder (morally) to teardown. The ST2 deserves better. A water-cooled 2 valve engine is simpler to work on, more reliable and when you look at the build quality of the ST2 it is evident where the Texas Pacific Group money went. In engineering terms, this bike is sorted. The Plan: I want to do this in three stages: - Aesthetic - Cosmetic - Mechanical To test fit the new clothes and modify the ancillary items (brackets and mount points) I will need to remove everything down to the rolling frame and forks. The tank stays, because I want to use it to avoid having to modify the airbox etc. And actually, it’s a good looking tank. This is not an 851 remember. This is an ST2 that doesn’t look shit. Once I know what I need to modify, I can set about making the changes. We will then enter the Cosmetic phase. Mechanical is everything else I need to do to make it safe and usable on the road. So… Wish me luck and please follow my progress. I have already bought the bike and made a start…. And here it is. She does appear to be quite photogenic, but don't let that fool you. This is not a quick build, so this first thread will concentrate on the Aesthetic ‘mock up’. Plenty of pics to come. I also found a lovely set of Vitaloni mirrors on ebay, which were rough when I bought them, but have subsequently been repainted (pic to follow) so I'm committed! The logical next step was to purchase the single seat tail unit used on the 851... The 888 one, just doesn't look as neat (again personal opinion). This one was snaffled on ebay for a decent price. I made the decision to start this post to give me some incentive to complete it! I know I will get all the encouragement I need from you guys! (Please). Will
https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/threads/851-lookee-likee-winter-lockdown-project-for-sale.82534/ Is this any use to you, posted on here just a couple of days ago.
I found this picture that I saved a few years ago of an ST4 based 851 lookalike. it uses the OEM tank, seat, side panels and fairing though.
Ha... that is funny. I've spent the last few weeks sourcing all the stuff I need, so I'm too late for this bundle, but a brilliant start for someone else. Great price too!
you have picked (for me) the best seat unit ever, a wacky, OTT item that would look at home in Gerry Anderson's Thunderbirds.
ST2 is a great bike to ride, I had one for a couple of years and then my wife took it on. I would not buy one now as keeper for three reasons: The charging system is shite. The headlight can be improved with a HID bi-xenon conversion, but it will still look old fashioned. Any early ST2 can self destruct in the area of the fragile swinging arm attachment.
Before I did anything significant with the bike, I bought a set of Vitaloni mirrors (as seen above), which were a little worse for wear. They looked faded and the mirror glass was stained, as if de-laminating, so I made the decision to clean up and paint the outer shells, clean up the rubber, but leave the glass. It has kind of set the tone for the whole build. I don't have a great garage facility at home, so the bike is stored in an outdoor shelter and the majority of work will be done in a small shed. I do have a good engineering workshop at work, so that will help with any machining, fabrication and painting etc, but it will not be a 'concours restoration' by any stretch of the imagination. I like the idea of a period looking, or age related build. It also gives me the excuse not to spend 9 hours polishing the exhaust headers! The bodywork is off and already the big decisions are coming thick and fast...
I didn’t get a chance to ride the bike, because it had no MOT and had been sitting on old belts. Keen to crack on, I have just stripped all the parts I knew I wouldn’t want or be able to use and had a good look round the chassis. My top tip here is not to get rid of anything... I might need a bracket or a fitting later that I can salvage from the bits. When you see the amount of stuff that comes off, you realise just how simple the bike could be. The 851 race bikes didn’t have 6 piece fairings, or vanity panels around the clocks and looked far better for it. One of the worst parts (for me) is the crappy plastic Batman cod piece sitting in the centre of shot here. It surrounds the ignition and serves NO purpose. As I pulled it apart, I was beginning to realise how many parts I’ll need to source. Clip ons, front fairings, screen, headlight, taillight and indicators, but these things crop up on ebay all the time. I am intending to use the existing headlight frame, because it has all the wiring and instrument mounts and will hopefully only require a bit of modifying to suit the 851 headlight. It should be said, one thing I do know about Ducati’s is they share a lot of components. 851 headlights, taillights and indicators are the same as the far more popular SS series, so parts should be easy to get hold of. I am however under no illusion that there will be some tricky parts to source. My plan is to rough the whole thing out and machine, fabricate or 3D print what I can't source. I'm handy with CAD and we have printers at work, so expect a few unique parts to appear! I pulled a lot of stuff apart, so to finish off I thought I'd test fit my 'Thunderbird' tail.... I want to use the ST2 tank, because as I've said I really like it and it will save a shit-load of hassle and cost, not having to source / modify an 851 tank. It is clear however that the tail unit will need to be modified. I need to trim and fibreglass the seat unit to sit neatly against the tank, but that will be relatively straight forward. Also, I was pleased to see the rear frame was completely hidden, meaning I don't need to cut steel. That might have been a show-stopper for me, because I don't want to 'force' the build. I want it to look like it was meant to be together.
At the beginning I didn’t like the tankat all, but in the last picture it seems it will fit perfectly with the tail and seems to “make sense”. Very interesting project!
Fascinating to see your progress with a project I never got to start, other than amassing the components required to do it. Might I suggest that before you get too much further down the road of trimming the seat and making ergonomic decisions revolving around the tank, that you try the reach to the bars, whether they're going to be clip-ons, or not. I say this because the seating position with the seat hump 'pins' you in and doesn't afford you a great range of back n forth movement. The shape of the 851 tank, sloping away from the rider allows you to almost lie over it to improve reach to the bars, rather than the ST2 tank being quite a sheer rise looks like you're going to have to 'loop' over it. The visual impression may give the wrong idea, but I'd be inclined to be certain, having tried out where the two (tank and seat) are going to position you before chopping/cutting the seat. Good luck with your project, I'm very envious.
Thanks for this... I have only really managed to mock up the position, by clamping tube (to represent clip-ons) on and it seems 'comfortable' (I used to have a 748, so my whole body has been recalibrated)... I'll try hanging actual clip-ons under the top yoke and see if that works, failing that I'll go for on top of the yoke. You are absolutely right though, I need to be able to ride the thing, without folding myself over the tank.
When I had my ST4s Mike Shannon, who posts on here sometimes, manufactured a pair of stubs for me to fit on the top yoke in place of the handlebars. They enabled me to fit clip-ons above the top yoke.
I sold the bike 8 years ago so this about the best I can do. I didn't use these clip-ons, they were crap. The preload and rebound adjusters were accessible by removing the cap.
I like the idea and agree with you that the best Ducati design period lead up to the 916 but then went off a cliff.
