Buying Desmo With Warranty Replaced Engine

Hi. Firstly hello. I am a new member, ive been watching for some time.

I’m in the process of buying a uk Desmo from one of the UK ‘specialist’ bike sellers, it’s become apparent that the bike had a warranty engine replacement in 2010. The bike is clean, well serviced with 4+k miles on it which suited me as I want a rider. The new engine has had 1500 miles on it since replacement. With investigation I’ve established the dealer that did the warranty work and that the engine change is recorded on Ducati’s warranty data for the chassis number. The dealer remembers the job (tech is still employed by them) but there is no paperwork from the dealer to confirm the work. The engine has no engine no. The v5 has the original no recorded. The dealer has no record of whether the engine they installed was un numbered and could not say if the process was to leave the engine blank or to re stamp the old number on the new engine - the old engine went back to Ducati. I’ve contacted Ducati Italy to ask if the correct procedure was followed - ie- engine would have been supplied without a number and they would not expect dealer to stamp old engine number. I’m awaiting a reply.

I am pretty certain all is genuine and it’s a good bike, at worst Ducati dealer overlooked stamping the engine but given these are collectors bikes and not exactly low cost the situation worries me and im torn about completing the purchase (deposit has been paid). The replacement engine was only disclosed after agreeing to buy when we went through the paperwork etc).

The bike is £60k and I think full market value for a bike workout the engine issue and I’ve no doubt if I were to buy and subsequently sale the bike I’d have trouble selling it without a suitable discount in price.

I don’t expect to make money on the purchase, I’m budgeting to lose quite a lot over ownership as that’s just how bikes are but I’d prefer not to lose a chunk of cash as soon as I buy due to the engine history.

Its also a grey area as to whether it’s legal to use the bike as the V5 is incorrect and although DVLA will change the engine number with appreciate evidence there’s nothing about what happens if there is no number. Plus although unlikely as there is no way to identify the engine, there is nothing to say the engine in the bike now is the one supplied and installed by Ducati.

These are all what ifs and buts they are factors that affect values.

Sellers view is it’s nothing to worry about and will not harm values - and is a good thing as it means there is 6000 miles until the expensive valve check rather than 3000 as would be the case if it had its original engine. This comment to be honest significantly reduced my respect in the seller as it’s 100% obvious an engine swap on its own will reduce the amount of people who would buy a bike of this nature before you add in the fact that due to being un numbered it’s not possible to trace the origins of the engine in the bike.

Obvious answer is to walk away unless it’s suitably discounted to reflect the perceived issue with the engine but it is otherwise exactly what I’m looking for

Or I propose a lower price that removes my own concern over the engine as it’s does not worry me in principle only that it just makes the bike less valuable.

I’m sure there will be many views on this, thoughts would be appreciated including whether the replacement engine should have been re stamped by the dealer - I’m pretty sure Ducati supply replacement engines blank. Can the engine be stamped now with the old engine number? Given there is no way of knowing the history of the engine now I’d say this is not possible or at least not legitimate to do so.

Anyway. Over to you!

Thanks

Pat

 

Thanks for initial comments.

I agree the bike and engine change are probably legitimate and as expected. The bike is a later one 2009, the failure was actually a gearbox issue which according to the Ducati dealer Ducati asked to replace the engine complete so they could investigate the failure.

I think the issue is simply how much does the fact it’s had a replacement engine which is un numbered effect the bikes value, which may be only I can answer….

There are of course lots of potential hidden issues in these bikes which you can only take so many precautions over so there’s going to be some level of gamble in purchasing a Desmosedici!

 

I agree. The Ducati Dealer (Alton) were very helpful. They are pretty well known for familiarity with Desmosedici which is encouraging. There’s no doubt they fitted a new engine on warranty to this chassis, but they say they don’t hold paper copies of customers correspondence that far back, the change is recorded on the Ducati database so it is recorded but I would have thought the dealer would provide a £0 receipt stating the warranty work done and I’d have kept that if it were me - indeed I’d have asked that the engine was repaired and not replaced in the first instance as from what Alton say, the damage was minimal. Even in 2010 I’d have thought an un numbered engine would have sounded alarm bells in terms of future values. So maybe the owner was suitably flush for it not to be of concern…

There is no doubt in my mind the paper trail could have been better, and I have probably found out as much as I am going to (unless Ducati themselves come back with something).

I’d prefer the bike with matching numbers but I’ll have to think whether this bikes other qualities offset the engine history.

 

Hi. I think the replies are as my own, or at least as expected. I have a pretty good paper trail and almost as good as you are really going to get for a warranty replacement engine done 13 years ago. If it were a £2k CBR you would be content but this is a £60k bike and it’s how much does the simple fact the bike has had a replacement engine devalue it. I’m with the majority in that it will put off a good portion of potential buyers unless it was below market price.

The seller is The Bike Specialist (who as with most of their stock sale on behalf of others - they don’t actually buy most of their stock). So there is a reputation as such, it’s not a private or inexperienced seller not facing fact that the unfortunate engine history impacts values, as I said, their statement that the engine change has no effect on value was disappointing. I’d have preferred them to have said ‘it’s a £65k bike but we’ve reduced it by £5k because of the engine change)’ and to advertise the bike as having had an engine change and for them to have investigated and presented the paper trail I’ve now established.

I’d not personally buy a £60k bike privately individual to individual, so for me it has to be a Ducati Dealer, specialist or someone like the Bike Specialists. I imagine the actual seller is not seeing much more than £50k if sold at £60k by The Bike Specialist so £60k is lower end of the retail market at the moment for a good bike with some mileage. I agree £50k is the kind of money to expect if you are selling. I’ve not seen a Desmosedici through a retail outlet for less than £60k in the last year and this one is the cheapest on offer in the UK at the moment and its otherwise a good one (as far as its ever possible to tell). 10 service stamps and regular if low miles annually with no obvious blemishes to bodywork etc.

Its a tough one as I know the engine will be an issue if I sell on later and id expect to sale for less than that of an equalivent bikes value at the tine, but I equally know the cost of ownership is more likely to be down to whether I buy a good or bad one given the price of any kind of unknown engine issue.

So whatever I do I’ll go in with my eyes open. I think trying to negotiate a reduction is fair, it’s then down to whether I can walk away if there is no reduction offered and I suspect none will be offered.

With Christmas and New Year ive not spoken to the sellers for a couple of weeks as id like to fix my own mind first but I'll contact them in the week i think.

Thanks again.

 

Hi. Thanks again.

I know of Iconic, they have many and have an auction mid February with at least one listed.

I’d prefer not to buy one at auction even one as reputable as Iconic.

I had reason to speak to pro twins Ducati today (I’ve bought a 17 inch Dymag rear wheel from them in readiness for Desmosedici ownership!) and they were of the opinion the motor change should not worry me providing its all recorded on the Ducati warranty data for the chassis (which it is). They also confirmed it’s correct that the new engine remains with a blank engine number. I think they are correct and the engine change doesn’t effect the quality of the product, but equally as most here agree the simple fact of the bike not having it’s original engine is off putting which will deter some and therefore probably reduce what it could be re sold for down the line.

The other thing pro twins said, and which I think all would agree on is that how the bike has been used / stored is critical to reduce potential expensive issues and is the main factor I should be concerned with when choosing a bike to buy.

Any extended period of inactivity being a worry even if only a year or two due to the various impacts of fluids (coolant and fuel) on the internals.

I think I am likely talking myself into buying this bike regardless and factoring in the potential issues on resale but I will be having a chat with the sellers to see if I can achieve some kind of price reduction.