Average car life is 11 years in the U.K., and there are no plans to stop providing for any vehicles, much as the scaremongering would like people to believe otherwise. Realistically petrol and diesel will be widely available for at least the next 25 years, probably closer to 50 UNLESS something radically different legislation wise is brought in. My guess is that as EVs continue to improve, reduce in cost and become move available in the second hand market, then ICE stuff will become less and less desirable. When Autocar did a survey, the only age group to have more than 10% who said they would never own an EV was the over 65s. If you look at banger end of the market, fiesta sized cars are more sellable than massive ‘gas guzzlers’ as they are cheap to run. This will be even more apparent when comparing EV running costs to a big ICE engined car. This will be countered by the ICE till I die types, so may balance out? Either way petrol won’t disappear overnight so we don’t need to worry. It may be that the days of a dozen petrol stations in every town will change though, but they already have to a large extent. Where I grew up there were four small petrol stations within a radius of 1.5 miles, now there is just the Asda one.
Interesting point of view and I agree with you about the petrol stations. But where did you find the information on the average life of an ICE car? All the searches I did brought the number 18.7 years. Is this wrong? Also on the running cost of an EV. If the depreciation is £30K over 2 years, surely that makes the cost of owning one no cheaper when compared to an ICE car, even when factoring in charging and petrol. In many cases the EV could actually be more expensive! Here is a depreciation graph based on the US market, but from anecdotal info its the same in the UK. All that said, finding really accurate information is not so easy, whilst finding certain niche POV's has never been easier! Model Acenta 39kWh | List price £28,995| 36k/3yr resale value £6425 | Price drop £22,570 | Retained value 22.16% Model Design 50kWh | List price £32,445 | 36k/3yr resale value £7700 | Price drop £24,745 | Retained value 23.73% Model Performance Line | List price £38,465 | 36k/3yr resale value £9150 | Price drop £29,315 | Retained value 23.79% Model GS 115kWh | List price £31,960 | 36k/3yr resale value £10,775 | Price drop £39,735 | Retained value 27.12% Model EV400 R-Dynamic S 90kWh | List price £69,995 | 36k/3yr resale value £20,775 | Price drop £49,220 | Retained value 29.68%
I got the 11 years from autocar, but can’t find it now, however RAC put it at 8.4 years -https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/record-breaking-age-of-uk-cars/ And those figures are from a website that is very anti EV. I am not sure what you have heard anecdotally in the U.K., but a quick search on eBay, and autotrader does not show a single EV at anything close to those prices. A £30k car for £7k at three years old? Sign me up! Also that is a very narrow and self picked group, but does not represent the U.K. at all. Autocar again (can you tell my mate has a subscription and I get the hand me downs ) but last year showed depreciation on EVs broadly in line with ICE based on like for like value. As always, more expensive cars tend to depreciate quicker than the bargain end of the market but there are blips. I think Tesla’s may be harder to shift after Musk's antics for example. That said, my point was that in the used car market the running costs at the banger end are the biggest selling point for many. Depreciation affects new buyers who are mostly either companies or on PCP - the sort of people who live on beans to have a Range Rover on the drive that they will never own. Once a car gets past a few years old the main things many buyers are looking for is reliability, cheap insurance, cheap running costs. At 1.9p a mile no ICE car could ever compete with my EV on that for example, its in for it’s first service on Monday, company pays but I asked how much out of interest - £120. Never been under £300 on previous ICE and hybrids. My daughter is just started out driving and hasn’t got the preconceptions about ICE, the opposite in fact. She will probably have my wife’s Fiat 500 but she would love an EV. If they were available around £7k at 3 years old then I would get her one without question. And youngsters don’t want to work on cars at the weekend like my generation did. Only one of the locals messes with cars and he has a fiesta he has tuned up. It’s a different world to the one I grew up in the 70s and 80s.
There are varied view points and it is hard to get an accurate picture. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/39601772...nmA/B1qpCANvKdFSJD1Aensg==|tkp:Bk9SR7z3s9elZQ I bet he would sell for £8K and its low miles, 3 year old, -go and buy it for your daughter now!
Those weren’t £30k cars new though, list was £26k and with the small battery (half the size of most modern EVs) they were old tech then and were selling for a bit over £20k ish new. It’s also a cat s write off so hardly a fair example if you are looking at depreciation. If anything that proves the depreciation suggested above is inaccurate - pretty much the worst possible options on a EV car, and a write off, is still above the depreciation curve suggested.
OK lets say all these cars were sold for £20K. As you can buy them easily all over the country for less than £10k its a mere 50+% devaluation in 3 years. Now we are all different, but frankly that is a disgrace imo. Regardless, it adds £3K per year to the running costs. Now that is surely undeniable?
A neighbour has an electric car. She had a big VW thing. She works no more than 45 miles away and vista offices twice a week. She charges at the offices, free. That covers all her mileage and very occasionally she tops up at home. If they go further, they use husbands T6 or goes with innate in her petrol car. Imho this is the only way it truly makes sense. I’m at the point where I could do similar with one of our cars. Problem is we have a sensible clubman that’s the go everywhere car and a less sensible convertible that’s office and back (100 miles) at most regularly and the mini convertible barely does 100 miles and costs about 45 grand!
But that is no different to an ICE car which will also have those costs in addition to the HIGHER running costs, I have never personally bought a new car as I would rather someone else take that hit and don’t care about having brand new. But that is a totally different thread to this one. Depreciation being far worse for EVs is another of the myths going around, the evidence is there for anyone to find for themselves that it isn’t true. Whether by accident or design you are comparing the running costs (including depreciation) of a brand new EV against an existing ICE car which is always going to show pretty much ANY existing car you have will be cheaper than buying a brand new car. What you need to do is compare like for like - brand new vs brand new, or 3 year old v 3 year old of similar value. In those cases the EV will always be cheaper to run. Our company is saving several hundred k a year just by switching to EVs. It was not without it’s challenges but I don’t know a single person who would go back to ICE for their daily driver.
I disagree entirely. I have provided actual real life figures on depreciation. A 50% depreciation is a disaster -imo. The running costs and the depreciation are all part of the cost to own a vehicle. You show me some numbers that show otherwise! Now there may be some tax benefits to individuals or companies that I have not considered. However EV's account for 19% of new car sales, after at least 5 years of promotion and discounts. Most of them are company car leases. Which means either you know something that almost everyone in the country does not, or that perhaps you are more enviromentally concerned than (most) of the rest of us.
You just aren’t getting it. No new car will be cheaper to run than a 15 year old banger, no one is saying that they will, either on here or elsewhere. If you want super cheap motoring, until EVs reach banger money, then an old diesel will be cheaper for a year or two. But that doesn’t make EVs expensive, it makes NEW cars expensive. A NEW diesel will also be more expensive than an OLD one. That’s so obvious I can’t believe I need to state it but there you go. I can’t really make it much simpler, perhaps do it Daily Mail headline style? new cars cost more to buy than old car shocker! In news today it turns out that a £40k EV cost more than a £200 Micra I bought off my mate Dave. The EV also costs more to insure as I don’t bother insuring the Micra as I won’t want it back if plod seize it. Yes guys! You read it here first EVs are a con! One of the reasons for slow adoption is that people are believing the myths being pumped to them on social media from people who have never driven one, let alone owned one. None of this is backed up by the reality. 5 years ago things were very different and range/ charging issues were a genuine problem. That is gone now and ranges are increasing with every new car announced. It’s just that some people are scared of new tech in vehicles. It’s always been the same whether it was fuel injection, ABS, even electric ignition!
You are the only person who mentioned "old bangers" which may be cheap to run and may not. Depends on your luck. I am sorry that despite making several posts you have not grasped my point, which is simply that: Depreciation and running costs of an EV in many cases are higher than depreciation and running costs of an ICE equivalent vehicle. If there is no gain financially; (and often a massive loss) when the range issues are are also considered, buying a EV makes little sense, to most people. Which is why the sales figures are what they are... There are as always exceptions to this, as in everything else.
Only in your mind are the running costs higher, if you bothered to look at the evidence you would see that, there are no range issues unless 20 minutes to add 250 miles is too long. You arguments are the same as on every thread on social media and completely unfounded in reality. We have a £40k limit at work and compared to ICE vehicles (with same £40k) limit, the company is saving hundreds of thousands of pounds a year which is why they made us all go EV only. They wouldn’t do that based on no evidence and if it turned out not to work they wouldn’t switch back super quick - our place wastes zero money if it can help it. But you carry on paying for your fuel at 20p a mile and I will continue to be wrong in your eyes at 1.9p a mile over first 10,000 miles
That’s the beauty of averages. Back in the 90s I was in a scrapyard in Leeds with a brand new Fiesta in with less than ten miles on the clock. The old guy had driven it out the dealers and straight through a red light into another car. It was on the road less than 10 minutes. My last personal car was a Volvo V70 with 280,000 miles on the clock at 27 years old. Most people see modern cars as disposable and once they get a few years old the complexity of modern ICE vehicles make them easy to get to a point where value is less than even small reports such as a replacement steering rack.
It’s a shame that people see cars as throw away nowadays, to me keeping a car and it having a long life is a greener option that just keep churning out new stuff. It’s the world we live in now though I suppose. I’m still on a iPhone 8 and what’s the newest one, iPhone 15 or something?
In some cases there is an advantage to a company to use EVs, due to tax avoidance. That does not change the actual cost, it changes who pays them. BTW, waiting 20 minutes every 120 - 200 miles is way the fcuk too long. But its fine if you do it.
It is. But that doesn’t suit govt and corps who want you to rent rather than own everything in your life, forever. It’s funny see what is clearly a two way exchange with Jez above when all you can see is one side as the other must have me blocked
For me EV is just a nonsense i'm required to drive mostly 4 hrs for a 8 hour working day adding anymore travel time than that makes for me EV utterly pathetic. For my partner ideal, but then at only 5K of driving a year the fuel saving is obliterated by the residuals.
Again you choose to misquote to fit some strange agenda, 20 minutes after 360 miles to get another 200 miles. If you are driving more than 5 hours without a break you are not a safe driver. There is no tax avoidance, but there is a trumpesque denial of facts amongst some on here it seems………. You spend far longer waiting at a pump than I spend plugging in, most of the time I am doing other stuff, but hey, you keep paying your obscene ‘road’ tax and I keep laughing at you. You keep paying 80p in the pound tax on petrol/ diesel to keep my roads in good condition, in fact, any chance you could drive a bit more as there are a few potholes around here that need attention?
Its fair to say that most of us have no idea which particular EV you have, just as its fair to say that a good number of them take about 20 mins to recharge and that is for 200miles as thats the most they are capable of! There are tax avoidance options re company use of EVs. Apart from the odd petrol shortage I've never waited more than 5 mins in 50 odd years of filling up at a petrol station. Most are here for a chat and exchange of views and information. Too bad that this topic has obviously made you irritated, but it certainly was not my intention. Maybe when you've calmed down you might reread the posts and see the only person being rude was yourself? Enjoy the rest of the weekend. EDIT You are right about my road tax, its far too much. But the car's a lot of fun to drive so hey -we all make choices.
