Sorry Glid, going to have to disagree with you here. Have you been to Dubai. Dubai doesn't have oil. The investment there comes from oil wealth and is used to develop it as a holiday destination. Saudi has invested huge amounts of money in universities. Unbelievably, one is for women. I know this as I have worked on these projects. I have a friend who is head of lighting for Abu Dhabi, where they are building a whole new city from scratch. As for $50 per barrel, don't make me laugh. Oil in Saudi is just beneath the surface. It cost a couple of dollars per barrel to extract. They are making plenty money and it is they who are driving down the price oil. Publically, they admit to wanting protect market share in Europe and stop the USA fracking project. Whilst most suspect it's yet another deal between them and the USA to cripple the Russian economy and punish Putin over Ukraine.
None of the critics of Western policy in the Middle East has replied to my question about the West intervening - not very successfully, I admit, but at least we tried - in an attempt to save Muslim lives in Srebrenica. We could have done more and ensured a much better outcome had the UN troops been sent in earlier and with a clearer mandate. And I know we sit on our hands sometimes when our own interests are not threatened - Rwanda is a prime example - but that is quite normal and we have to do that as we are not the world's policeman. The USA didn't enter WWII until it felt threatened.
Come on TTonup, over to you. Any pearls of wisdom to add? Or have you finally been silenced by Glid's informed demolition of your specious arguments?
I think we have seen that building an economy on tourism doesn't work. Cheap holiday to Greece anyone? A few historic sites and tavernas does not an advanced economy make. And even if it could work, Dubai is only just entering that market. What has it been doing for the past few decades? I find it strange that those of a leftist persuasion can bring themselves to defend the reactionaries of Islam, bearing in mind their attitudes towards women and gays. But logic isn't always their strong point is it? Particularly when there's a chance to bash their own country up for its imperialist past. Some Scots seem to enjoy doing that - conveniently ignoring that the Scots were even more enthusiastic empire builders than the English. Sorry, Glid is right. These backward, feudal societies, constrained as they are by a backward religion, have squandered their immense wealth on baubles and trinkets. You only have to take a trip to West London in summer to see the Gulf State-plated Lambos and Ferraris flown over so their owners can enjoy terrorising the locals and keep them up all night by roaring round what should be peaceful back streets. Of course they'd be flogged for behaving in such a way back home. But that's another story ...
I am perfectly happy to stand corrected but I can see there is a wealth of difference between producing the buildings and the infrastructure and producing a "university". What would you be able to study there? Most literature of the west is haram. Business? Lending at an interest rate is haram so that pretty much puts paid to capitalism. Physics? And decide that the Koran is a bit wide of the mark as regards the creation of the universe. Sociology? Don't be ridiculous. And so it goes on. The thing about universities is that they are meant to be about opening up minds, pushing boundaries, creativity, enquiry, thinking out of the box. If everything you think has to be within the box of the Koran, it's not going to work very well. I have no doubt that there are Muslim universities but in an ultra orthodox society I can't see what they are really going to contribute to the world.
Has Dubai oil run out? It was a long time back but I was involved with a few jobs for the Dubai Petroleum Company, offshore rigs in the gulf Maybe its all gone dunno but Dubai certainly had oil money. The idea of Dubai as a holiday destination does nout for me. I will admit the climate is lovely in the winter, but I could think of 100 better places to go than a Desert Sorry little off topic
Nor me, though I like deserts. But I like them empty and elemental not transformed into tawdry shrines to mindless consumption. To me Dubai is a chavtastic hell for footballers wags, the embodiment of wealth squandered, not a sustainable alternative to it. And a lot of it has been built on debt, not oil wealth. Dubai is heavily indebted.
Poking snakes and kicking snow at cats, whilst colourful metaphors, aren't really helpful here. Snakes cannot learn to to be anything other than what they are. Cats are rarely lethal outside of Edgar Allan Poe types of literature. The point you make regarding disaffected youths agreeing to a post-life plan as partially invalid - if it wasn't for obvious targets like Charlie Hebdo, the murderers would simply single out some other concern or group as the target of their outrageous outrage. As Bob Dylan once said, "If you have a lot of knives and forks, you're gonna have to cut something". The Islamic world needs to know that they have to learn to peacefully co-exist with us as we wish to be, not as they wish us to be. They have to learn that they get nothing from behaving murderously. There can be no concessions which contradict our Western values on this point. This message has to be sent as far and as wide as it needs to go. Practical solutions? I assume you aren't asking for instant solutions, as that would be tricky. The solutions are for the West to keeping being the West in the face of intimidation and murder. Hope that the presence of a civilised society on the planet acts as an example and as a goad, if necessary, for the young Muslim civilisation to learn from. The West had no one else to learn from whilst it grew up - Islam is in a better position for rapid maturity.
still not seen any solutions or support for extremists, not even from us Scottish. but we do appear to be coming at it from a different angle.
Despite an expensive makeover, as befits her new-found status, no. She still looks like Alex Salmond in drag. Only she's worse because despite being equally vacuous, she is TV friendly so may get to air her views more often. Still, the upside of that is that when Miliband gets in with the help of the SNP, he will be forced to stage another referendum - and this time the vote will be YES. And thank whatever god you like, or none, for that. Happy Burns night!
i know, that's something else i like about her. a right fiesty yin, pretty sure dugdales gonna have a break down on fmq's sooner or later.
