I recently bid on a pressure plate from eBay seller Forza-Moto who sells a load of Ducati stuff. Most of his stuff is buy it now but he occasionally puts stuff up for auction with a low start price and these pressure plates are one of the items he occasionally auctions. I'd tried a few times to win it but always got beaten. I was a bit suspicious about the bidding patterns but until now had nothing more than a feeling to go on. The auction was due to end on 31st May and on the 26th I put a bid on of €93.51 which was the leading bid. The next highest bid was €60 so I was winning at €61. €61 continued to be the leading bid until 10 minutes before the auction end when a bidder, known only as N***t due to eBay's privacy for bidders policy, placed a bid of €120. A bit strange as Forza-Moto has the plate up in a buy it now for only €115! Of course this bid beat me and obviously revealed my max bid. N***t then immediately retracted the €120 bid and rebid €92 euro, just under my max and so pushed my bid to €93 which is what the auction ended on. I contacted the seller Forza Moto and pointed this out. I made it clear that I would not purchase at the final price due to the strange activity of N***t but would pay the €61 bid that I felt was the true winning price. He stated in reply that he had no knowledge of the bidder, that he had many bid cancellations on his items and that he cannot control the bid activity of buyers of his auctions! I had a look at a few of his recent auctions. Turns out N***t has been a very busy boy and appears to own multiple different Ducati's, all of which are in need of parts as he has bid on lots of parts, mostly for very high prices and at the very end of the auctions. He has 1 feedback and has only ever bid on Forza Moto auctions. There is of course nothing to link bidder N***t with Forza Moto other than the fact that the account only ever bids on Forza Moto auctions. If I was Forza Moto I would be very angry that this strange unknown person was deliberately bumping up my auctions! At this stage I reported the auction to eBay. They gave me the usual 'we take this seriously' guff and also pointed out that if action is taken we cannot tell you what it was. Since this incident Forza Moto has posted another auction, the only change being to make it private. Private auctions completely hide the bidders name (bidders are given numbers instead of star's in their name which makes it difficult/impossible to spot if they have bid on other auctions). Forza Moto refused to sell me the item for €61, as is his right. It is my opinion that the correct thing to do in this case would have been to immediately cancel the auction and relist the part, this has yet to happen. Also banning bidder N***t from bidding on further items would be a good idea, I don't know if that has happened but I know I myself have been banned by Forza Moto. I have also been contacted by e mail and threatened with 'international legal action' for defamation for writing this thread on a well known Ducati monster forum. As all I have done is posted the facts as they happened and provided screen grabs and links legal action is a hollow threat. Defamation requires something false to have been posted and I have simply posted what happened in auction #141677206071, checkable by anyone with a computer and the desire to follow a link. The admin of the forum have removed my thread posted there after similar hollow and groundless threats. My intent is not revenge nor is it financial. It is to warn fellow eBayer customers and my fellow club members, Ducati fans and buyers of Ducati parts, of the possible pitfalls of auctions. In this case it was a Forza Moto Ducati auction but of course it could happen on any item. A rogue bidder, completely unknown to the seller could bid a very high amount then retract and rebid just under the max bid of a genuine buyer. I'm sure that happens all the time! I would hope that forum admin would share my desire to inform potential victims but equally I can understand if they can't be bothered to stand up to bullys and would rather capitulate than inform and protect their members. I love eBay, probably a bit too much, I've been on it since the beginning pre paypal when you would regularly send a cheque in the post with no guarantee that the seller was genuine even. It worked because people are mostly honest and play fair. As it got bigger obviously fraud became a bigger issue so protection was built in, sad but that's life. I still like to think that most people play fair though and that if they don't eBay will take action. Due to the threat of legal action by Forza Moto I would like to make clear that as far as I am aware there is no link between Forza Moto and bidder N***t other than the fact the N***t has only ever bid on Forza Moto items, over 40 times in fact and only high bids. I am not claiming any other link between them as I have no evidence that points to that. Nor am I implying or in anyway suggesting there is such a link or that there has been any wrongdoing on the part of Forza Moto. I am merely stating the facts as they happened in auction #141677206071 which are currently a matter for public record at ebay and preserved within the screen shots posted below. Footnote - Forza Moto now appears to have abandoned the €1 start price auctions in favour of a start price 40% lower than the buy it now is available for.
Of course the two are connected! He's shill bidding! I too have been banned - but only because I paid for two things and had the audacity to complain when they didnt arrive, only to be refunded without any explanation of why he had kept my money for a month and not even posted the items. Of course I've been banned now, but I would never buy anything from him nor would I recommend his (pathetic) service.
Why am I being a drama queen @AirCon ? Thats exactly what happened - theres no embellishment in my description of events.
1. I meant to "Drama queen" @Dirty as the practice is wide spread on Ebay. 2. The drama queen was meant as a "Funny"...as he did leave himself open to it.. Clearly he was saying he"s shill bidding and this happens a lot on fleabay. If he bid €91, then won, he should have paid that, so he was in the wrong as well!. Personally I'm moving away from selling on eBay as it is too expensive.
I thought if you make a genuine bid,you cannot retract it,to then place a lower bid. Otherwise everyone would do that?
You can retract a bid on eBay but when you do it they ask the reason for the retraction. I accidentally bid £900 on an item once when it was meant to be £90, I retracted my bid without a problem and then put a bid in for the correct amount. I believe ebBay do monitor your account bids and if bidding retraction happens often then they warn you and take action. As for the above, it is possible that the lister has someone with a genuine account who is upping the bidding to raise the bids on an item. The only problem is that if he is doing this then effectively if the other "person" wins then he is really buying the item himself (in a roundabout manner) and then also having to pay seller fees on top of this. So it doesn't always pay to undertake shill bidding or work with listers who are trying to hike the price on your behalf. If eBay have investigated and seen numerous bid retractions that follow a pattern then I would guess that they will, have or should take action. As mentioned they may have already done this.
Seller N***t, as far as I can tell, only used bid retraction in the auction mentioned, though I don't trust ebay software as it states he has never retracted a bid here yet he clearly has here. I would have happily paid up to €93 had I been genuinely bid up to that level by genuine buyers who also wanted the item.
A couple of weeks ago I also made a bid on this seller, just missed out [emoji3] but the following day he made me a offer that I could buy it for the price that I had bid, well the max amount [emoji3]I left it with that [emoji6]
It's possible that eBay do not count that as a bid retraction as he has revised his bidding and not totally retracted it, really it's much the same instance as myself. He asserts it was a mistake and eBay sees a revised bid go in. Clearly nothing to stop that happening and I doubt eBay could questions his motives on this occasion.
Well, do make up your mind. Either you are happy to pay €93 for the item or you aren't. If you are, you should pay up; if you aren't, you shouldn't have bid that figure. It makes no sense at all to say you would be happy to pay €93 if that figure is reached by one process but not if the same figure is reached by a different process. Yes, the seller has bumped up the price of what he is selling to the maximum he thinks somebody is willing to pay and has bid. So what? This is what sellers do. Welcome to the market economy.
My mind is and was made up. The price I am happy to pay is the price it reached in a fair market, not the price reached when someone rigs the bidding. Your contention is the same as saying you would feel the same about losing money in a card game regardless of whether it was a fair or a rigged deck!!
No it isn't. You bid €93 for the item. That means you were happy to pay €93 for the item. You have stated clearly that you would be happy to pay €93 for the item. You didn't have bid €93 - you had complete freedom to bid any figure you chose, or nothing at all - so it was entirely your choice. Having bid €93 you were then asked to pay up - which you refused to do, and then whinged about it. If that is your attitude towards buying and selling, I hope you never bid on anything I might sell!
If that is your attitude I hope I don't too! The gambling analogy is exactly the same. Just because someone enters a casino with £100 they can afford to lose doesn't mean they would be happy to lose it by unfair means or indeed that they want to lose it all. If that was the case they may as well just give it to casino rather than waste time playing! Win, lose half, lose it all would all be fine as long as the game is fair. My €93 bid was conditional. That is how eBay works. Conditional upon other genuine bidders and the prices they would be willing to pay. So whether I was happy to pay it or not was also conditional. I presume you understand the eBay biding process?? I was hoping to buy it for a lot less but would have paid €93 only if that had been the genuine price. If you can't see the difference between being bid fairly up to my maximum and someone using a bid retraction to discover my maximum bid then pushing me up to it then there is no further point discussing it with you. If you think that is ok to do that then please tell us your eBay name so we can avoid your auctions.
On eBay, anybody in the world can submit a bid for any amount they like at any time before the auction ends, and it can be more or less than any amount you have bid. You seem to have conceived of some distinction between "genuine" bidders and "non-genuine" bidders, @Dirty . Well, if there are such things as non-genuine bidders they are people who put in a bid and then afterwards refuse to pay up the amount they have bid - and evidently you are one of them. The bottom line is that if you didn't want to pay 93 Euros you shouldn't have bid that sum for the item. May I take the liberty of offering some well-meaning advice? if you see something on eBay which you want, decide how much you are prepared to pay for it and bid that amount. If you win the auction, expect to pay that amount in full. If you manage to get away with paying any less, think yourself lucky. Simple.
Yes, ignore what I wrote before as it doesn't fit with your view. You clearly have difficulty with comprehending the situation so I shan't bother explaining again. I will point out genuine vs non genuine for you though. I'm nice like that. genuine bidder = someone who wants to buy the item ie me Non genuine bidder = someone who bids a higher amount than the item is available for on a buy it now, thereby revealing my maximum bid and then retracting that bid and bidding €1 less than that maximum in order to unfairly maximise the final selling price.
There's seems to be an attitude that, because you can get away with a thing, that thing is entirely acceptable. Incredible when considering the legal background that people might have. There also seems to be evidence of learning disability, too. Ah, what do I care. They idea of bidding in an on-line auction appeals to me as much as any form of gambling ... so whatever.
"Unfairly"? Sorry, @Dirty , but I have news for you. Every seller of everything - on eBay or anywhere else - wants to "... maximise the final selling price." That is what sellers do. If you think that is "unfair" then you have failed to grasp the whole concept of buying and selling in a market. It seems you are unable to understand the way eBay (or for that matter any other kind of market) actually works. Pity. If you would like it explained in more detail, feel free to PM me. No-one can say I'm not willing to go the extra mile.
