Handling and Suspension Setup

Chaps,

OK, I have thought about posting this here in public, but I have spent enough time playing now with my Panigale to share - and would welcome any other informed views. At the moment, all the reviews just say "fantastic bike" but I am not of the same view yet.

The handling might be best described as a handful. It changes direction like a housefly, whether you want it to or not. It is also desperately unstable, shimmies at speed and is horrible on bumpy UK roads. The front also bottoms out on braking, and I haven't even ventured on track yet - so there is clearly some major diving going on there.

Now bear in mind that I have a Desmo which I also ride on the road, and that took some setup too, but I am not unused to bumpy roads and fast handling bikes.

The rear is massively oversprung, the bike is too high up and the rear ride height is too high. The forks dive like they have no oil in them. My bike was shipped in the F position rather than P, and I was advised this was still the preferred position for flat linkage rather than rising rate.

Well, fine. I have played with pre-load, ride height and damping enough to have a view now. The bike is mismatched front to rear. I could ride it in such a fast setup on track (just) but on road it's way too much. I haven't yet swapped from F to P as it should be possible to get it to work properly with a flat linkage as well if the spring is the right weight, but it might be I have to change both the spring rate and the linkage. Until I get some springs, hard to say.

The forks are a 10.0 spring. The rear is a 90 I believe. I usually have to drop mine a bit as I am approx 68kgs. But this thing is sat up "in the gods". The bike is too high up, you only have to sit on it to know that. It is unstable at speed too. All the give away signs. Plus, I have the performance seat on mine, and that lifts your centre of gravity by another 20mm from the stock seat.

I have done the following so far:

1. Asked for new springs front and rear to be ordered so we can have a play. Ordered 9.5 fronts and a 75 rear.

2. Dropped the rear end by about 18mm!!! Wow - that is a lot, but it has only just started to calm the bike down.

3. Dropped the front by about 4mm (to continue to reduce bike ride height), so effective change 14mm lower in the rear alone, then +4mm further front and rear.

4. Wound the preload to zero at the rear. (by the way, altering the ride height and the preload is a faff with the shock adjuster running through the centre of the shock body)

This is a massive step in the right direction, but looking forward to getting new springs and then trying the F to P switch. Will also check the oil height as with a 10.0 spring I shouldn't be bottoming out. I have 9.5 in the other two bikes, and they don't bottom on hard track use, let alone normal roads.

Anyone else made progress with theirs yet? Anyone made the F to P switch, or vice versa and compared? That is my next change to try, once we have a correct spring installed so I can see the difference. At the moment I think it will just be too stiff anyway.

I am sure there is a decent setup in there somewhere, but as they come (or mine came out of the factory), they are horrible!

No-one else think the setup needs work??!!

Cracking engine (up top, lumpy down low), bike will be great when sorted I am sure. Is very pretty, very light, and spins up incredibly quickly up top.

ChamMTB

 

Kingfixer,

Thanks for the reply, and glad I am not on my own. Half the problem here is that once people have spent a lot of money on something, they are reluctant to admit it has any faults. But I am not that happy with the setup of the bike, and I can't yet get it within range. I can't judge too much without re-springing, so I need to wait for that, but it is very far off out of the box. I am particularly alarmed at how unstable it is at speed, in the wind etc. It is really twitchy.

I need to wait until I have springs and things that are the right stiffness for me. But I imagine that I will find that:

1. There is insufficient oil in the forks as that would account for the excessive diving. Either that or the oil weight is light.

2. The rear needs to be brought down by about 20-30% in spring stiffness to get the bike to sit down.

3. I have already dropped the forks and the rear, this makes a big improvement.

4. The performance seat makes the issues worse - so I may drop that and recover the existing one with something grippy.

The "feeling" of the bike being too stiff I am used to from the desmo - so it is not that which I find disconcerting. The bike chassis is very stiff due to the similar stressed engine chassis design (the desmo is the same with a stiff as hell trellis holding the headstock to the engine), but not as stiff as the desmo probably due to the rear swingarm being single sided and not as stiff as the massive box section job on the desmo. Hence, as I can get the Desmo to work, we should be able to get this to work. The forks are Ohlins and so they should be workable, likewise the rear is a TTX, albeit with the electronic stepper. I understand that you can lose the electronic stepper motors too and make the suspension more standard - but not sure how.

So I think that this is a simple geometry issue, particularly for lighter riders. If you weigh 100+ kgs I am sure you can get the rear to squat down more with the stock suspension. I am sure that the soft front forks also help people who just sit still in the saddle steer the bike more easily at road speeds. But if you go to move around on the bike to tip it into a corner, the thing starts twitching and shimmying as you move around, let alone turn in! And if you brake hard, it is within 3mm of the bottom of the fork leg.

"Needs work" is how I feel about this bike. I have time on the 848 and the Desmo and know how to adjust those to how I like them to be. Both are setup to steer quickly, track speed even on the road. Neither are twitchy like the Panigale.

Am sure I will sort it over the summer, but could use any pointers from anyone else who has a view. Happy to talk to Rich at Austin too if that helps?

Thanks,

ChamMTB

 

Jerry,

Thanks - will have a chat with Nog, and will also speak with Rob who I know well enough. I needed to wait until the chaps at JHP have all the bits (which they now do), and then we can start adjusting. But was interested in whether or not I was the only one that thought this bike was miles off out of the crate. I guess not from the PM's I have had!

Am sure if we all have similar feedback, then a base setup will emerge here over the summer for these bikes.

Best, Ian

 

Just read another couple of reviews which now seem to be filtering out (after the initial journo love-in!) talking about "not feeling planted", "tricky suspension setup at the back", "quick initial turn in but then not feeling stable" etc....

Looks like it will take a little while to get these dialled in like the 1098 range......