£5/6k over original sale price in 2016 I didn’t think that was too bad. Probably the better looking 1299 of the bunch. https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1551470
Is it just me that finds this rather sad? A stunning motorcycle, destined never to be ridden because of the zero miles, collectors item tag and associated price.
I can never managed to do that myself, if I brought something like this, I'd never resist riding it. I'd also HAVE to peel off those delivery films.
Providing Ducati keep making Panigale V2 and - like mine - the entry level V4, I see no problem with them having high-end machines that might never be ridden. It helps keep the brand interesting and a global player in the sportsbike market. The last thing we need is Ducati taking a lead from the Japanese manufacturers and, at best, having track-only sportsbikes.
Still 8 grand less than this 1098r with the same milegae lol 2009 Ducati 1098R Bayliss Rep Unused Example showing 1 mile For Sale (carandclassic.com)
and a la Corgi models/current crazy thinking - if they had kept the accompanying boxes pristine and unopened then could probably have added even more..
Further proof that buying a bike from new and keeping it in a crate is a terrible investment. Both the Anniversario and the 1098 Bayliss are up for less than their RPI inflation adjusted original price. It equates to a real term loss in both cases and when you add the cost of insurance and storage during ownership, the ‘investment’ is just a liability. Bikes aren’t an investment - any decent investment fund with compounding of dividends would make money over these time periods - and the longer the time period the more that investment grows. If you can flip a brand new vehicle for a profit soon after buying it - in the manner many people do with various Porsche models, when demand outstrips supply, then you can make money in real terms. But if you leave it 25 years then any standard investment fund will hugely outperform such speculation. It’s about time the foolishness of thinking of these limited edition bikes are ‘investments’ is put to bed - because it simply isn’t true. The key problem is that they cost a substantial amount in the first place - so that amount invested properly always outstrips any value increases over time. It’s very rare to find something from the past that bucks this trend - and it’s often because the vehicle has some special providence - owned by a famous person and only 2 ever made etc.
You are probably correct but only point I would make is that vehicles don’t attract capital gains tax when you sell them.
An anniversario isnt a Ferrari 250 GTO But I think it is more to do with being a bit of a fashion accessory to some. Not many do any mileage on them (multi guys excepted of course and all you others). My 15 1299 had <3k on clock when I bought it in 2018. When I sold my 1198 people complained it had 17.5k mileage. My 98 916 was 2yrs old and had 2k on it. (its now got >25k, would be more if i didnt have 1198 and 1299 etc). My 12 now has 11k and would be higher if it wasnt for covid. A lot of us ride and enjoy our bikes for what they are, great bikes to ride. But there is no escaping the fact that there are some who buy it for the badge and to look at as if it is some design icon. This is only really true of 916 and 999 shape imo. Oh and 888 thats pretty too. The 1*98 was just a take on the 916 in a sense. Still nice mind. Now this isnt all bad. Because I too was drawn in by the 916 for the above reasons and subsequently discovered a love for vtwins after having mostly il4's. But I wouldnt have got that love if I hadnt ridden it and enjoyed it.
Agree with Twin4Me and Bootsam. They don't really represent a good investment, and they are not ornaments and should be ridden! If I'm buying, yes mileage comes into it, but I'm reasonable. My 2007 1098s has got just over 18K, which is about 1200 miles a year. Anyone who thinks that kind of mileage is 's high' is well, high!
100% correct - in another thread when I first ran the figures on some older bikes I looked at it as a long term pension investment. If you choose a stocks and shares ISA as your investment vehicle you can minimise tax and within a SIPP the government will also add 20% to whatever you invest. When you start factoring these things into the equation and compounding interest/dividends over a 25 year period the growth outstrips vehicle appreciation by such a margin that any tax you would pay on withdrawals wouldn’t be enough to affect the outcome. You can make money on flipping vehicles and investing in the classic market. But not by buying something brand new and keeping it for years. Take something like a Duesenberg car from the 1930s - they can go for millions - but if you had the kind of money that it took to buy one in the 1930s and invested it properly rather than buying a car an keeping it in storage - wind forwards almost 100 years and your great grandchildren would be living off a trust fund of such magnitude that they wouldn’t have to work a day in their lives.
I suppose it depends how wealthy you are. If you’re one of these people that have a climate controlled warehouse in which to store your toys, then why not?
The problem is fairy, that these people are pushing up prices so enthusiasts cannot afford them any longer. If the wealthy person is a true enthusiast, then fine. But I suspect a number are not and for them its about posing to their golf mates.
Oh I’m well aware of that. You just have to look at the luxury brand industry to see that. My sister wanted a Rolex for her 50th. The daft buggers wandered into a dealership last week thinking they could just buy one. Nope. Nothing for sale- display only. You either have to wait yonks on a list or buy from the grey market. At a premium above list….
Rolex are good. But not the best, granted. I wouldn’t say no…. Certainly a decent place to hold your dough.
I'll stick to my iWatch with the Toy Story face as I dont need glasses to see what effin time it is. (I prefer Omega or Breitling, Rolex is poncey)
That’s just the way of the world - supply and demand. Manufacturers aren’t in it for the love of it - maybe some small startups begin that way but down the line when corporate money gets involved they are in it for profit. Limited editions have huge profit margins - so as long as there are enough wealthy people to buy them - whether that’s to store them in aforementioned climate controlled warehouse or on a plinth in their ‘Volcano lair’ , they will continue to churn them out. We can’t complain that it’s ruining it for true enthusiasts because if those wealthy people weren’t buying then the manufacturers couldn’t demand such high prices and therefore wouldn’t bother producing the limited editions. The drive behind limited run homologation models used to solely be to satisfy rules for racing - because racing sold bikes - the market has changed and racing isn’t the sales driver it once was - especially as the percentage of sports bike sales has shrunk so dramatically. If Ducati wasn’t making so much money from limited edition models of their top end sports bikes - driven greatly by the glamour attached to the world championships rather than practicalities of ownership. Then possibly they would draw a line under racing altogether. Suzuki have pulled out because they will have done the maths and found they are making a loss on racing and sports bikes. Their business model has always been based on ‘affordability’. Obviously in a world where the gap between the rich and the ordinary people is getting wider and wider this isn’t a good sector to be in. Hence Ducati is targeting the rich, the instagram crowd, the designer brand wearing poseurs. It doesn’t matter to Ducati that the bikes won’t be ridden and that they are beyond the means of most who would love to own and actually ride them. There isn’t a workable alternative - this is the world we live in - fancy Ducati’s wouldn’t exist in a Communist/Socialist world and in a ‘Stakeholder capitalist’ world we won’t be able to afford anything other than a small electric scooter while the elite fly around in their sky cars telling us how happy we are!
