British Indy: What Happens Now?

considering the impasse. what else can be done. if leave win again it cant be argued that the electorate didnt know what they where voting for.

 

obviously i wont change my position, but others might. and what could i say to argue against the result if it generally perceived as being an honest run thing.

 

terrible state of affairs, handing more power to a system nobody trusts. what are we like eh?

 

Hilary Benn asked the speaker as did yvette cooper, to rule on ruling out Tuesdays 3rd meaningful vote as there is a parliament rule about multiple votings on the same bill where there has been no changes to item being voted on. I doubt it will come to anything but, If it continues, it will fall in line with what many of us said, The eu will find a way for the U.K. to keep voting till it gets the vote result the eu wants, and no one doubts may's chequers deal is the deal the eu want.

If the house on Tuesday votes down the deal, an extension is likely to be asked for. I suspect a short one if May thinks she is close but that runs the risk of the above mentioned keep voting issue, or a long one if they think they will never get her vote through but for the eu, if they ask for a long one without a plan it is likely to be refused. I suspect the eu will ramp up even further, if you can't agree how to leave, why leave? and suggest article 50 be removed and we remain

If you did that, our stock within the eu is already damaged. When ever we voted a motion, whatever we did, it would be ignored because we will have shown how weak we are when it comes to the eu as our own people will continue to undermine democracy. At home, remaining in might appeal to our elected politicians and the minority of the vote but it will have shown and proven, when voting against the eu, as has happened many times before, events are created till a country keeps voting till it gets the result the eu wants, where is the peoples voices in that situation.

I haven't forgotten a few pages back, I posted a link to the eu's own website and the bill to show from the start of the next eu financial budget, the eu will increase their own border force from 1,500 to 10,000 and they will operate in member countries and have no accountability in the member countries they operate in

Article 6
Accountability The Agency shall be accountable to the European Parliament and to the Council in accordance with this Regulation

Article 104
Functions and powers of the executive director
1. The Agency shall be managed by its executive director, who shall be completely independent in the performance of his or her duties. Without prejudice to the respective competencies of the Union institutions and the management board, the executive director shall neither seek nor take instructions from any government or from any other body.

Not a single remainer who has denied the eu is seeking to operate everything from Brussels with no accountability, made a mention when it was shown to have come directly from the eu themselves.

It's for this reason many in the U.K. voted to leave the eu project, there is proof and loads of it out there, even within the eu's own documents and actions, are seeking to remove countries as they are and create a citizen of the eu.

The U.K. has simply used democracy and the legal right to leave the eu by the eu's own process and rules

 

i was reading this this morning from Adam Ramsay of the National. anybody else see what yer man sees?
its titled, how dark money split the torys and there is a pic of JRM on the headline.
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A WHILE back, I was undercover at a Scotland in Union dinner and found myself sat next to the aristocratic wife of a prominent Brexiteer. I won’t name her, because that would be rude. But you’ve heard of him.

Amidst turgid speeches about why we should all love the Union because the Devon coast is particularly pretty (I nearly blew my cover by blurting out that Norway’s fjords are too, but that doesn’t inspire in me a desire to govern them), she was by far the most interesting person there.

And the most fascinating thing she said all night was that, as she saw it, Brexit is an alliance between the upper class and the working class against the middle class.
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Now, the data shows that, beyond her own experience, she’s mostly wrong. The idea of Brexit as a working class revolt is largely a tabloid invention. The bulk of the Leave vote was the English middle class.

The interesting point was that her posh and hyper-rich pals had backed Brexit.

And if we want to understand events in Parliament this week, then this is an important group to get our heads around.

Traditionally, the Anglo-British ruling class has been good at one thing: solidarity.
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It’s why posh parents send their children to freeze on the rugby pitches of famous public schools and it’s why the Tory party rarely splits.

It’s a lesson learnt on the playing fields of Eton and in the plundering of India: if we work together, we’ll all do well.
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One of the remarkable features of Brexit is that this rule has been broken. The Conservative party has wrenched itself asunder over an issue which most people in the UK didn’t much care about before 2016.
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And to understand why, we need to look at the broader social group that the Conservatives traditionally represent – the ruling class – and how it has fragmented, or, perhaps, been usurped.

Part of the reason they’ve split is, of course, about identity and ideology. But a lot of it, I suspect, is about material interest.

Let’s look at the two factions.

The first group is those who favour a close alignment with the EU.
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This includes most of the big employers you’ve heard of, and their representatives in the CBI. They want to maintain tariff free trading with the EU, and don’t mind giving up the right to endanger their workers and poison our rivers in exchange.

This group is well understood, and when people say that “the establishment” is against Brexit, this is roughly who they mean.
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This group is still mostly in charge of the UK, but it’s in decline, and has been for a long time as its spent its way through the plundered assets of empire.

In Parliament, it’s represented by Theresa May, and the “moderate” majority of Tory MPs.

The other side – the part of the ruling class that supports Brexit and a hard one at that – are less often talked about, and in many ways less public.

But they are important to understand, too.

This group is desperate to pull Britain away from the European regulated space, and drag it into the deregulated American-sphere, where the winner takes it all, and they’ve already decided who the winner will be. And no, it’s not you.
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First, there’s a large chunk of the media – papers like the Telegraph and the Sun, owned by multi-millionaires who live, respectively, in the Channel Islands and the US, and who have been the biggest institutions driving Brexit.

There’s the people who funnelled dark money into the Leave campaigns – the cash openDemocracy revealed, which went through former Scottish Tory golden boy Richard Cook to the DUP, and the cash which came through Arron Banks, via Gibraltar, and which we’ve spent much of the last two years tracing.

Then there’s the tangle of dark money funded think tanks – groups like the IEA and the Taxpayers’ Alliance, who have been toiling away for unknown clients, promoting a hard Brexit for more than a year now.

As my openDemocracy colleagues have revealed, they have unprecedented access to government at the moment.
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This network works closely with America’s corporate funded neo-con world, including groups like the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), who spend their time fighting against action on climate change or restrictions on gun sales, and are closely connected to both Trump’s White House, and British Trade Secretary Liam Fox.

Last year, for example, IEA director general Mark Littlewood toured the US, fundraising from wealthy donors and promising to “shred” EU regulations, according to a Greenpeace undercover investigation.

Littlewood’s colleague, Shanker Singham, was essentially the author of the famous “Malthouse compromise”.

One of the main groups Littlewood visited was agribusiness firms, keen to shape UK farming regulations after CAP.
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Then there’s the military and the mercenaries. Brexit group Veterans for Britain had on its advisory board a string of powerful figures, including the former head of British Armed Forces, Field Marshal Lord Guthrie (who’s from just outside Dundee).

These people are connected to a string of private intelligence companies – Guthrie now works for the private intelligence agency Arcanum, whose chair has described Brexit as an “opportunity for American business”, while privatised military propaganda companies like Cambridge Analytica and AggregateIQ played contentious roles in the Brexit campaign.

These firms shouldn’t be underestimated – the UK is now the world centre for mercenary companies, not something it can say about many business sectors.
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Though there is another notable one: money laundering.

And in two years investigating the Brexit elite, it’s very clear that most of the money launderers are desperate to leave the European regulated space.

And finally, there’s the White House. When Donald Trump came to Britain in July, he said that Theresa May’s deal with the EU would kill the trade deal he wants to have with the UK.

Most journalists treated this as a gaffe, as though politics is reality TV. In reality, it was a perfectly rational statement of intent for a disaster capitalist global oligarch.

Lump these people together – the media moguls and the money launderers, the disaster capitalists and the people who employ the services of mercenary firms; and the American businesses who see a chance to pull Britain out of the grip of European regulation, and you find the second faction in the ruling class: less domestic industry, more offshore finance.
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We can call them the oligarchs. And the section of the British aristocracy which has managed to make the leap into the 21st century – whose fortunes have expanded through hedge funds – is happy to welcome them into their West London clubs, and cook up plans for a new global Britain.

In parliamentary politics, this cluster of interests is represented by the European Research Group – the right of the parliamentary Conservative party founded in the early Nineties to turn the UK into an “offshore, low tax haven”, and who have shifted their allegiance away from Britain’s traditional industrial capitalists. As Boris Johnson explained last year: “Fuck business.”

These hard Brexiters seem to see two ways to get what they want: through May’s transition deal (but without the backstop) then Liam Fox’s trade deals, or through no-deal.
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So far, they’ve been tough in their negotiations as they try to pull Britain as far offshore as they can. And if May does eventually win a ‘meaningful vote’ on her temporary arrangements, it’ll likely be because she gave them something major. And permanent.

Adam Ramsay is co-editor of openDemocracy UK

 

your gonna have to explain yourself a wee bitty better here. i cant really think of any of mine screwing me over bud. whit ye saying?

 

Being a polite sort of person, I started to read this post but bu**er I hate long posts, so I havn't finished reading it and never will.

 

Ok

 

This is really interesting.
I'm pretty convinced that post Brexit Britain will try and reinvent itself as even more friendly to business, corporate interests, banking and international capitalism. It will try to be the northern Singapore.

Far from clamping down on the off-shore world, it will try and get some of the off-shore business for itself. Corporate tax rates are likely to drop rather than rise. Workers' rights are more likely to be weakened than strengthened. Deregulation will likely increase, favouring the bankers and hedge funds in order to safeguard the City's business (stop it going to Frankfurt and Paris) and to increase it. The divides between north and south and rich and poor are likely to increase.

The UK will launch itself as a new product, one that is different to the EU and proposes the services above. That is why the hedge fund owner Rees Mogg is so keen on the idea. He and his mates will make even more dosh.

I suspect that all Britain's societal problems will be exacerbated.

A post-Brexit Britain which is sort of the same as now doesn't make any sense. What is the point of leaving then? There has to be something to put in its place. This isn't scaremongering, it's just simple logic going on past form.

 

yip, i figured it would fit in well with the tax avoidance tread. you gorra admire JRM tho, he always seems to resist the urge to turn back into a Bat when anybody is around.

 

Some parts I would agree with. The remainers by blocking a clean break/clean slate, have probably pushed the scenario where we will become now, more Singapore

The ree's mogg dig would be balanced had you also mentioned, even by the simplest of google stabs, just how many labour and snp councils invest OUTSIDE of the U.K. for the best return whilst telling it's people they have no money, just one example to balance your mogg mention

https://www.theguardian.com/society...d-body-advise-labour-council-to-invest-abroad
https://foe.scot/press-release/revealed-scottish-council-pensions-are-backing-fracking-overseas/

I think the key point to your statement is that which I have underlined. Only one side was asking for a change, the majority democratic peoples vote, the side that lost is prepared to accept any deal, even a worse one than admit we could have a bright future with our own clean slate

 

its such a shame you have to keep stuffing yer stuff with non facts and whitabootery.
until the middle of 2017 almost all councils where run buy either labour or the liberals or a coalition of the two. and had been for decades. and while they did become the largest party in many wards, and while they do controle a few now, the Unionist partys have formed coalitions in many of those to keep the Nats out.
these things take time.
every party up here bar the torys remain focused in not allowing fracking on our soil. why? because that's what they where told to do by the majority of constitutions.
what that has to do with brexit i have no idea.
every party up here, in our parliment bar the torys oppose brexit. mostly because of the economic implications and the loss of sovereignty for us. no, i aint arguing that with you, those that it may concern can do their own reading.
options where provided in 2016 to make the rUK's transition easier. but hay, May and co. so here we are. near three years later... bla bla bla.