Yes I have looked at previous posts and internet information. Trying to remove studs from vertical culinder all unbroken and believe all original "the prone to snapping" ones. Using the double nut methd at the moment and seem to have them locked well with no slip. I have put a bit of heat onto casing at stud base but not too much. I have the stud halfway out but it'is extremely tight and has been all the way out. When heated I turn the nuts, there is a bit of flex in the stud and then it suddenly slips a small amount with a loud crack. I am using a standard 15mm spanner and when the joint is cold I can't move the stud. There is no corrosion I can see, the bike has done 12k and is pretty clean. 1. Why are studs very very tight, is it the loctite? 2. How much heat can I put into it without damaging the aluminium. I have come across varying temperatures which has made me more uncertain as what to do. I have a heat gun that goes pretty high and a digital thermometer. Anyone got any reliable info on temperatures. 3. Anyone had studs very very tight like this, in the past once they were free they came out without a problem, but this seems different. I am getting a cam loc stud remover so as not to twist the stud too much by using the nuts, I can get a better grip lower down. All comments appreciated. P.S. Can we get this Fake Passport Sh!t deleted and ban the guy. Cheers Gaz
You shouldn't need too much heat to get anywhere needing to worry about the aluminium - 100 degrees or so should be adequate and keep it away from the stud itself. Stud extractors are better than two nuts but penetrating oil now they are moving might be a good idea.
The cam lock stud remover is a much better bet than the two nut method.........the torque on the stud needs to be as near to the thread as possible. From what you say it seems like hard Loctite.......the slip and the crack suggests the breakaway Loctite is jamming in the threads where other Loctite hasn't yet shifted. And as Exige says, penetrating oil; or even carb cleaner might break down the Loctite. Keep turning the stud backwards and forwards as much as possible.
sounds fine and stud extractor is good - as fresh stud thread is emerging just watch to see if it's bringing aluminium swarf with it.
As above, pretty essential to use a proper stud extractor, the locknut method can stretch the stud thread and\or damage both stud or bolt thread by stretching and stripping.
Chaps, Thanks for all suggestions. New stud remover in hand will go at it with a bit of heat and some penetrant. Agree torque lower down thanks Al, hopfully new exractor will give a constant torque rather than it twisting and slipping using nut method. Will keep you posted. Cheers Gaz
Candle wax is a good method to use as it does not boil off like thin penetrating oils do, heat the stud up and run a candle around the area and the wax melts into the thread.
I would have suggested this, but it's pretty obvious a Stilsons wrench will mark the studs, but hell, they get a much better grip than a brand new Mole wrench would.
During this exercise I have considered the resultant torque transfer due to the twisting effect of the stud shaft, the possible adverse effect on the micro structure of the aluminium post heat treatment and how capilary action might reduce the coefficient of friction between the threads. But final editon could be right "A pair of 24" Stilsons" could do the trick. As mentioned these are the original snappy studs so I do have a new set. Thanks again all for comments. Cheers Gaz
All, thanks for replies. Well they are out. I would have picked the worst one first. On the vertical head the front right and back right were very tight as meantioned previously. The ones on the left were fine and came out not trouble. I did a bit of research on the amount of heat to put in. I don't know the exact grade of aluminium (would like to know if anyone does know) but I think whatever it is, it is then treated to T6 condition - Solution heat treated and then an artifical ageing process. During artifical aging the part is heated to 325 - 350 deg F (163 - 176 deg C) for an amount of time. Once in service repeated heating over this temp for prolonged periods of time reduces the strength. I have taken the view as Exige says to keep it not much more than 100 deg C. How do you measure this? More than likely the heating will be local and the amount of heat lost to the rest of the casting/casing is anyones guess. I ended up heating it up until I could no longer touch it (say about 70 deg C) and then put a bit more in. I think something must have happened to the ones on the right I am thinking over torqued. They pulled some threads out so heli-coil here we come. The threads half way down and at the bottom look to be necked down. Also both studs are bent and I think a bit necked. Now I could put the 1st front right stud down to initially removing by double nut method and leaning on it a bit (although I did try to kep it straigh) but I had the cam lock removal tool for the second and that also has a bit of a bend in it. Having a good tool (ooh Mrs) helped a lot but think the ones on the left would have come out wit the double nut method. These were not rusted in and don't think the wax or penetrant gave any help. While looking into the crank case I managed to get a small screwdriver on the Crank shaft oil plug and it moves freely. So that confirms a split is required - I was going to try and get away with not doing it, I know false economy. Cheers Gaz
Gaz, Glad to read you got those studs out, im having the same battle, on my old 900 SS. I had a broken stud ( original stainless ones ) on the horizontal cylinder. Got two out using the two nut method. Exactly like you described ..bloody tight. Ive now got the third one out a couple of turns and its locked up. Ive put that much torque on the end ive bent the stud a bit. What Cam lock stud remover do you recommend?? Any advise from appreciated!! Cheers, Billy
Billy, Sorry you are having the same problem. I had same on horizontal but they came out OK. I bought a set of roller type (3 rollers inside something that looks like a long socket) to do these but I would not recommend them they never gripped very well. I got a second hand Britool one like this snap on one and Paid similar money.There are cheaper ones where the cam is only held on the top side but would not go for these either and material probably isn't best. snap on A36 stud remover 1/2" drive | eBay To be honest I could have tried final editions suggestion with the stilsons as you are going to mess the studs up anyway but I have a fetish for tools. As long as you can get down near the bottom of the stud and keep it square when undoing. I think you are in the same position as me. The stud has to come out and you are probably going to damage some threads. I gave it a bit of heat as described in previous theard but don't give it loads you could weaken the metal. I clamped the casing up tight on a workmate bench, that held it secure. I am now formulating a plan to put some inserts in. Good luck. Cheers Gaz Watching TRON, it's got Ducati in it, well at the start anyway.
Gaz, Thanks for advise on that, Heres an update, Got a stud remover today, got the original broken stud out no probs, brilliant tool. However.....the problem stud has now snapped off. im now in process getting engine dropped out. Ill have to get it to a local engine repair shop to drilll out. All good fun!! Where are you and whats yer bike?? Billy
Billy, Bugger. sorry to here that. It was the Horizontal wasn't it, is there any stud sticking up, presume not. I though mine was going to snap it was squealing this a stuck pig. I am in the Worksop area and have a 92 900ss. It is in bits and has been for a few years now, its a slow reno but I am moving forward with it albeit very slow. Remember post some pictures or it never happened. Cheers Gaz
Gaz, Got the engine out today, its in the back of the car now, ill take it to a local engine repair shop through the week to see if they can sort. I dont fancy drilling it out myself, and i dont have a welder. Id only cock it up if I tried. What the hell have they locked those studs in with?? Ill let you know how they get on. The annoying thing is the broken stud came out ok!! My old Duc is a 94 SS and im in St annes near B/pool. Cheers Billy
Hi, there, Yes I did get some heat on the stud and the case to try and soften the locktite ( if thats what ducati originally used ) made no difference. I got three out of four out including the original broken one ( that was the easiest ) then it all went wrong. The stud extractor allows you to put a lot of torque on the job. Be carefull!! The engine is with a local engine shop at the mo, hopefuly get some news this week, Cheers, Billy
I am not sure they originally used loctite, I can't really see any evidence and it does not refer to ot in the Ducati workshop manual. It only say grease (GR33-FD (whatever that is)) the nuts for the 3 stage torque 14.7Nm / 29.4Nm / 41.2Nm. Other items in the manual show what type of loctite to use but I can't see the studs anywhere. P.S. don't use a tap to clean out the threads use a thread restorer or last resort a bolt with some grooves cut down it. Cheers Gaz
