Some legal help required as I am being forced to go on the sick by the company that I work for due to the fact that they say I’m not fit for work and need to go on the sick where I disagree, do they have the right to make go on the sick and do they have to pay me my full wage? And is it illegal to get a sick note from my doctor when I feel I’m fit to work?
Need more information to be able to take a view, I'd start with the CAB or ACAS for confidential advice rather than posting personal details on the web. Depending on the circumstances your employer may be acting out of a duty of care to you and other employees under the Health and safety at work act. You should have an employee handbook that will cover the company policies of sick pay, although this may depend on how long you've been there.
Basically having problems with my shoulders and possibly need them operating on in the future, I have been on amended duties at work for the last six months and I recently went for a non-medical examination where they stated more restrictions on what I can do which I disagree with. This is the reason for them sending me home and asked if I could get myself signed off from work.
OK, first let me stress that I am not an HR professional or a lawyer, I have employed and managed people in the past and that is as far as my knowledge and experience goes. If you feel really strongly about this I'd really recommend getting legal advice, whether from a solicitor or CAB. I would imagine from your decription above that your employer is concerned that the ongoing problems you have experienced may be exacerbated by the work you are doing and as they are the ones giving you that work they would be liable for any further damage. Sometimes employees need protrecting from themselves as much as conditions. You could potentially ask for a formal assessment with their HR department and a statement as to why they feel you are unable to work and you could then present medical or other evidence to refute this. You should be paid at least Stautory Sick Pay https://www.gov.uk/statutory-sick-pay or more if your employer has their own scheme.
Actually re-reading that I'd go and have a talk with HR or your line manager first and let them know about your concerns before you go to CAB or solicitors.
As @shadow says, we sometimes need to be protected from ourselves.. I had a tendon go in my hand, followed by an operation to fix it. Even when I thought I was fit to return, my work explained they couldn't accept my word for it and explained that if I damaged the hand opening the car door, for example, to travel anywhere on company business, or the surgery gave way as I reached for the phone to answer a work call, I'd be in a position to sue and they would not be insured if they had knowingly permitted my return before I had been given the all clear by my doctor. Due to the initial operation proving unsuccessful and having to have a second op, I was off for a total of 6 months, at work's insistence, during which time I was paid in full.
So you appear to be acknowledging that you have a serious long-term medical condition which has impacted on your ability to do the job, and which may require surgical intervention. Many people would imagine that means you are "sick". If your employers take the view that you are in fact sick, but you disagree, you would need to clarify what basis you have for your view. This is not apparent from your posts so far.
It does feel like you are holding back on something but if it is what I think, I can understand your concern. The company seems to have played ball. You have an injury, probably went off sick for a while, they probably organised a light duties temporary assists on full? pay but after 6 months they are probably considering what they do next also given as you mention, more restrictions, operations etc. Would I be right in saying your real concern is not the company insisting you now go sick but more the sick pay/assist is going to be stopped after such a long time and they are now advising you that you must seek statutory sick pay (SSP) which will of course be a much lower amount being from the government. I found this. It is U.K. based and should only be seen as hitting the key points as all cases vary person to person https://www.lawontheweb.co.uk/personal/sick-leave
I’ve had problems with my shoulders for approximately last 2 1/2 years I had an operation on the left one which did improve things but not fully and further investigation is going to be done in February also the right shoulder has impingement and arthritis again further investigation to be done also in February ( MRI scans ) I have been on amended duties for the last six months my company sent me for a non-medical investigation report which states I’m not fit to do some of my amended duties but I disagree with this as its caused me no trouble over the last six months.
I admire you for opening up in public and I can relate to what has happened/is happening to you, but not sure I can help as mine was over 20 years ago. First thing I would ask (which I could understand if you didn't want to share in public) is are you completing your duties to the same degree that your colleagues are? This is assuming that you can make a direct comparison - maybe you can't.
From what you have said your company does not sound unreasonable. You have asked for, and been given, some good advice here, I suggest you take it.
To be honest I agree with what’s been said - but you noted that you have been on amended duties for six months - to that point they sound like they are being fair with you and to be honest ( sorry ) Six months of I would assume by your comments reduced duties without reduced pay is more than reasonable. If they now require you to either go sick or complete full duties also doesn’t sound an unreasonable request. The company I work for would engage occupational health review and either put you on sick or require full duties. If you then couldn’t complete your job either get your shoulders sorted whilst sick or discuss your future with the company as unable to fulfill requirements of the position employed for.
I don't want to sound at all harsh with what I'm saying, you're obviously a person of admirable work ethic, but this is an example of a company looking after its employees aswell as itself from a legal point of view of course. It's maybe that they see you as a risk not only to yourself but to other employees which in this day and age can have serious legal consequences and many companies will go to the point of being ridiculous to avoid any problems. Employees might not think it but in this country we have some of the best legislation in the world for ensuring fairness and safety in the workplace. It's not that many years ago that if an employee became ill or unable to work they would be dismissed and replaced almost straight away. I had nerve damage in my shoulder five years ago which progressively got worse till the point that I couldn't sleep or fully use my right arm. I own a farm and I'm self employed. Cows don't care how you feel they still need feeding and milking. I just had to carry on. Thinking back I probably was a significant risk to other people who work for me aswell as myself as farms are dangerous places at the best of times. I would have given my right arm (pardon the pun) To have been given the time and pay to get myself sorted and recover. I understand more than anybody that if your a worker being told not to work is inconceivable but I think you should appreciate and embrace the fact you are been given that opportunity. I wish you all the best and a speedy recovery.
I do agree that my company have been fair with me and it is the fact of duty of care that they have sent me home sick although there are plenty of other duties that I can perform or move to a different department, both shoulders were injured in work and have not pursued any compensation it’s more the uncertainty and not knowing if I’m going to be paid that is pissing me off if by the end of the week I do not have job anymore so be it onwards and upwards
I hope that it is on record that you were injured at work, slippery employers do their best to prevent this.
If "both shoulders were injured in work" then that puts a different light on it. Stop pissing about and get good professional advice as others have said above.
Not knowing the facts, having your shoulders injured at work may not necessarily be your employers fault.
In the event you cannot carry out your duties effectively, your employer has a right to discipline you. It seems you cannot do your job effectively? If you can, then why not see your GP to talk about the matter. Your GP issues a cert. to say that you are fit for work also. The nitty-gritty as to the fact of whether or not you can perform your tasks as expected will come down to a combination of your abilities and the opinions of your GP / operating surgeon / physiotherapist / consultant etc. And from the employers Side the opinions of its occupational health advisor is and medical professionals. If you are unfit for work then you should simply should not work and it would be unlawful for your employer to insist that you continue working. If you’re unable to carry out your work and this has resulted through an incident(s) at work which your employer is at fault, then your employer should compensate you for not being able to work. If The problem with your shoulders is related, as you say, to arthritis, then it may be that you have a disability (for the purposes of the equality act 2010) If so, There exists a possibility of such a disability being viewed as a Protected characteristic for which your employer has a duty to make reasonable adjustments at your workplace and in respect of your duties. Such reasonable adjustments would depend upon the facts of the disability itself and the nature of your work. The Threshold for disability is a substantial and long-term impairment that has an adverse effect on the ability carrying out day-to-day tasks. Should it transpire that you are unable to carry out your work, For whatever reason, your employer ordinarily has the ability to discipline you; including for example, demotion, suspension, warning and, dare I say it, dismissing you. Your employer can do this lawfully whatever the circumstances of you being unable to carry out your duties. This would depend, amongst other things, upon the terms of your contract of employment, Company rules and the nature of you being unable to carry out your duties effectively. The question of whether or not such disciplinary action is lawful also depends upon the circumstances and facts. So, for example, should you be injured at work at the fault of your employer and that injury cause you not to be able to carry out your duties then your employer may still dispense with your services but May have to compensate you for doing so over and above your contractual terms. Similarly, with a disability preventing you from carrying out your duties, your employer may still lawfully dispense with your services however there will be many obligations your employer has to meet prior to resorting to such disciplinary action or dismissal (such as making “reasonable adjustments”. Should a disability be deemed as such, falling as a protected characteristic under the the equality act 2010, and that disability prevents you from carrying out your work, and your employer has failed to meet its obligations to accommodate your disability, then your employer would’ve acted unlawfully for which you must be compensated. The The points above aren’t to be taken literally but to point out the difficulty in what you ask. If you give the matter sufficient consideration to come seek advice here then you really need professional advice from an employment lawyer and before that I would suggest your GP. If for example you feel you can carry out your tasks unhindered, your performance at work demonstrates that you can carry out the tasks unhindered and your GP, operating surgeon and consultants say that you can carry out that work and hindered and without detriment to your health then this leaves your employer with little option but to reasonably allow you to work. Since your employer is open to discipline you for not being able to carry out your work, and it appears it has not done so, for whatever reason, perhaps your employers stance is in your best interest? You have not stated whether employer seeks to discipline you or sanction your pay in any way. Simple answer as to what it is obliged to pay you whilst you’re off sick etc. lies in your contract of employment. Whether or not your employee stipulates you take time off for sickness or whether it is your choice to take time off for sickness is irrelevant since the reason why you’re off is for sickness. If your employer is the cause of why you are off sick, then ordinarily, your employer will have to compensate you. Should you consider taking action against your employer for personal injury then you should do so sharpish as rights to a claim for personal injury expire quickly. ACAS provide guidance to employers and employees and unions and so on. Its guidance is not strictly authoritative. ACAS will often be open to talk to you however it tends not to provide advice and tries to stay impartial. It is unlikely its guidance will fit exactly your circumstances. ACAS Publish quite extensive general guidance online. Advice is best sought from an employment solicitor. Should you do so explain that you merely seek advice. It is often harsh however whether or not extensive advice or engagement with a solicitor is economic viable will depend upon your salary and the job that you carry out. I’ve dictated this into my phone whilst sat waiting for train. Some words / formatting might have gone awry. I hope they help.
