Garmin Zumo Or Tomtom Rider?

I've only just started playing around with the Garmin Basecamp on my laptop as you can create routes and upload to the Garmin satnav. I think you can also create routes in Google maps and upload too. Early days yet for me to answer your questions but I'm sure others have been using basecamp who would be more able to advise. I will be following this thread for help/advise/tips

 

I have a Garmin Zumo 660 and used Mapsource for route planning etc which worked OK once you got the hang of it. Mapsource has been replaced with Basecamp and the general consensus is that it is a backward step. The base Basecamp is lacking in detail but if you plug your Garmin device into your computer you can access the higher detailed map on the device.

I bought my Garmin Zumo before Lifetime Maps came as standard and I have to upgrade to LM for £75 before I can transfer the map to my computer to give me access tothe detailed map without plugging in the Zumo, I think. Everything is done through Garmin plug-ins that work very well but don't give you many options or much control at the system level, think Apple rather than Microsoft.

You have correctly identified that the system can over ride some of your choices, particularly with respect to routing options. The routing options you might want to apply at the beginning of a long route could be different from those you want towards the end of the route. If you put in a long route with just a start and a finish the chosen route depends entirely upon those options, which can be different between the computer and the device. The solution is to set intermediate waypoints that force the route selection where you want to go.

The software is not without it's quirks but it is worth persevering with. A series of shorter linked routes tends to work better than one long route. Also you must do reality checks on what route is selected.

I prefer Garmin, but that is what I am used to, but I really must set some time aside to get the latest maps and get to grips with Basecamp. And finally on the rare occasions that I have telephoned Garmin for tech support they have been very helpful.

 

I used a TomTom in my car a few years back and then brought a Garmin Zumo 660 for the bike back in 2010. I much preferred the TomTom spoken instructions, so much so that I now use the Zumo without them in the car as well as the bike (Navihalter mount above the display on a Multistrada). For some reason Garmin thinks it a good idea to use road names rather than road numbers which isn't as useful in the UK. I never used any route planning features on the TomTom so can't comment on that aspect.

The only problem I've had with my Zumo 660 is that it occasionally doesn't boot up. It just continues to display the Garmin logo and doesn't move on to the loading maps stage. I doesn't do this often and a power off/on usually fixes it but sometimes I have to remove the battery. I keep looking a replacing the Zumo 660 with the new Zumo 590 but I can't justify the cost.

I've been using a Garmin Basecamp for a few years now and worked out a few things which help when planing and using custom routes:

• I use Basecamp to get an idea of times between proposed overnight stops and then use Michelin maps to work out a route, looking for the roads highlighted with green along one side (scenic routes). With Basecamp you get no idea of height / contours, Michelin maps are a bit better, but not OS standard. Also with Basecamp, you don't get any idea of the size of town from the text whereas Michelin use different font sizes/bold/caps for town names depending on size. I then program the scenic route in Basecamp to double check the times. I usually have to go around the loop a few times to optimise the route so that it's an interesting ride for me and not too long in the saddle for the wife
• I now use the fastest route option in Basecamp and on the Zumo. In Basecamp I generally have to insert quite a few waypoints to get it onto my preferred route. I used the shortest route option for a while but it likes to cut corners down very small lanes/tracks particularly in towns/cities. Even with fastest route, I generally check the route a t a high zoom level in Basecamp to check it hasn't done anything strange.
• When following a custom route, it's best to disable auto-recalculate as this will just work out a route directly to the end point. I create a number of names waypoints along the route and make them a favorite, so I can navigate back onto the route. Mostly it's easy enough to get back on route by zooming out and heading back for the highlighted custom route.
• Everytime you update maps, you must select the option to do it on both Sat Nav and PC, so the maps are kept in sync. This also allows you to use the full maps in Basecamp with the Sat Nav connected.
• If you know you're going to stop for lunch at a specific place, then make two routes for the day. I've had to break a route into two as I've used too many waypoints or Basecamp just won't calculate a route to down a specific road (even with the Time/Date closure avoidance switch off - e.g. Alpine passes).
• I generally have toll road avoidance enabled, and use waypoints to avoid going on motorways except where I want to for a few miles, e.g. around a city.
• I've noticed that when I transfer a route onto the Zumo the estimated time is lower, sometimes as much as 10 - 15% however on minor roads you'd do well to beat the time estimate on the Zumo.
• For a long tour, I prefix the custom routes and waypoints with the month & date (e.g. 6-01 - 1st of June) so they appear in order when selecting. I also tend to delete them at the end of the day to make selection easier for the subsequent routes.
• I still prepare a paper turn list for each day (with road numbers and major towns + named waypoints) which I have in the map pocket of my tank bag and carry a full set of Michelin maps. I even print off a street map of the area of the hotel on the back of the booking confirmation.

I've tried using Tyre, Google Maps and a few other applications but have always come back to Basecamp. It's not perfect by any means but I've come up with a way of using it which works for me.

 

Yes it does, they are called tracks and it's very useful. You can import them back into Basecamp as a record and view details such as speed. The track is usually broken down into a large number of segments which can make finding a specific part tedious. The only problem I've had is track information being overwritten on the Sat Nav because of lack of storage space. I think there is an option on the later models to turn a track into a route, on Sat Nav and in Basecamp.

I hit the same problems when trying to use Google Maps for route planning. Basecamp has a similar problem where you have to zoom in to see the minor roads.

You can download Basecamp and have a look at the features, you won't get detailed maps as these only imported/licenced once you associate a Garmin Sat Nav. Basecamp is a bit of marmite application, some people just don't like it, so it's worth having play. I think you can still download a free version of Tyre (toTravel) which is widely used and works with Garmin & TomTom Sat Navs. There are loads of tutorials on Garmin Basecamp and Tyre on Youtube together with some good tests and comparisons of Garmin & TomTom Sat Navs.

 

I am updating my Zumo 660 as I write this and have had to install a microSD card to take the full European map which contains more information than previous versions and no longer fits on the basic hardware of the Zumo. Presumably the current satnavs have a larger built in memory.
@steveb123 makes some good points, particularly about the auto-recalculate feature which is great on short journeys but problematic on longer journeys, unless you have those critical waypoints defined to hold you on your preferred route.
I do not have audio and rely upon the purple line on the screen for guidance. The Zumo automatically zooms in and out depending upon the situation on the road, which is a very useful feature.

The base Basecamp lacks minor roads but gives you a flavour of how it works. It is a bit clunky initially but you would soon get the hang of it.

 

I've also had to add a MicroSD card to be able to load the full European maps on my Zumo 660 - not too bad as it's now over 5 years old which would be considered ancient if it was a mobile phone or a laptop PC I can't find the size of the internal memory on the various models but would assume that the new models have more so they can at least hold the current full Europe map set.

Looking at a comparison of the Zumo 660 and later 39X / 59X models, the 660 only allows 20 custom routes to be load whereas the new models support up to 100. I've only hit this limit once even on tours of 3 weeks.

 

Just reacquainting myself with BaseCamp and the awful way in which it transfers, displays and edits data. Particularly how easy it is to end up with multiple copies of waypoints, routes etc when transferring between the computer and the satnav. Then once you have done that how difficult it is to edit them.

I think the easiest way is to tidy things up on your computer, delete the data from the satnav and then reload what you want from the computer.

 

Yeap, that's what I do.

 

Another vote for Garmin here, tried Tomtom, in fact I have it on my android phone which is great for casual use, but I prefer the flexibility of preplanning a route, especially a two or three day journey.

I had a quick look at basecamp but I am so used to mapsource it didn't make any sense to me. I have a BMW Navigator IV which is a Zumo 660 and actually prefer the naming of roads, brought it over from my previous bike and now need to look at power connection to the Monster and open my drawer of RAM mounts and see what solution I can come up with for mounting.

Had to buy an SD card too, managed to grab the lifetime map package when it was on offer a few years back. Just wish I could get the speed camera database from Pocket GPS world to work properly.

 

Just upgraded to Garmin Zumo590LM, best satnav I've ever used on a bike. Basecamp takes a bit of getting used to but works really well once you get your head around it.
I found this really helped:
http://www.newenglandriders.org/Learn_BaseCamp.htm

 

I started with a Garmin Quest and progressed through a StreetPilot 2720, Nuvi 765T (in reality the poor man's Zumo 660) and to my current Garmin a Zumo 660. When I acquired the Quest, admittedly 2nd hand, the first TomTom Rider was available and quite tempting though I was put off by the failure of the mount and TomTom's apathy towards the groundswell of discontent amongst their customers over this. Garmin on the other hand, at this time, had a great reputation for support and an out of warranty exchange scheme where for a reasonable sum you could get a good as new factory refurb in exchange for your old unit.

On the customer service front, between TomTom and Garmin, things have levelled off somewhat, I believe that the Garmin service exchange thing is still going though. Have never needed to use it, the couple of minor issues I've had I've sorted out myself.

Like most die-hard Mapsource users I found the transition to Basecamp so painful on the first attempt I deleted it and scurried back to the former. However, a year later and with a free afternoon in hand I gave it a second shot. I've never looked back and shortly realised the advantages. Development on Mapsource ceased towards the end of 2010 though it still supports the current mapping.

I do this as well. I have all my favourite way-points; friends houses, regular meeting points, clients etc. as a list in Basecamp, these can then be re-exported to the GPS after a clean out and loaded afresh. Similarly day routes or complete tours get loaded to the device as a GPX file from the list or folder that I created for them in Basecamp. You can then delete this file and remove the routes and they are then gone. Despite not yet being a Ducati owner I already have a 461 point GPX file of dealers across Europe (my touring buddy rides a 996).

When downloading mapping data the default is to save this to the GPS only, there is an option in Garmin Express (the update software) to also save mapping to your PC. By doing this the same mapping data that you'll be using on the road is available in Basecamp for route plotting without having to plug in your GPS, it's much quicker too.





The above are from an earlier version of GE but the current one is similar.

You can set the level of detail of the full mapping displayed in Basecamp, this makes the view less cluttered when viewing at higher 'altitudes' and also speeds things up on slower PCs. The full detail is still there when you zoom in. With a higher level of detail selected the finer detail is visible at higher 'altitudes'.

Whilst this is true you can have as many routes as you can fit onto the free memory space on a Zumo 660 (literally thousands, they don't take up much room) but you can only load 20 into the menus at any one time. It's just a case of removing those you have already ridden half way though a tour and loading the later ones. No need to take a laptop.

What problems are you having? POI loader is useful for adding these to the GPS.

Michelin Maps are great, those green lines (scenic routes) make fantastic biking roads. Whilst I also buy these paper maps when planing and do take them with me when on tour as they are ideal for the bigger overview and obviously as a back-up, I use ITN Converter as part of my early planning process as this can be set to use Michelin mapping data that includes these green edged roads. I then save each route to a GPX file and import into Basecamp for finessing before finally loading it into the Garmin itself.

As the name implies ITN Converter can also spit out route files in many other formats so is useful for sharing routes with users of other devices or posting Google routes for those that don't have any.

Haver you tried turning off avoid U turns, the algorithm can confuse sharp hairpin bends with U turns. Spent some time struggling with this planning a tour to Austria before I found the issue.

One of the issues with Basecamp that I discovered at an early stage, which is also replicated to a degree on the Zumo 660 (not sure about newer models) is that the motorcycling profile on either (the 660 switches to it automatically when put into the bike cradle) tries to adjust your route and in the process, in most cases, utterly buggers it up. Try the following to restore peace and tranquillity... and also the need for far fewer routing nodes and way-points.



In short, despite not having used one of the new generation models, Garmin gets my vote

 

@Bumpkin

Thanks for that.

When selecting preferences it can be a bit of a problem coming up with settings that are applicable across a wide variety of routes. You tweak one to get it to work and then discover one you did earlier, and was happy with, has been altered with some bizarre routings through towns and along minor roads.

Then you are never quite sure what will happen when the route is transferred to the Zumo.

I think the key is to ensure there are lots of intermediate waypoints to keep the route selection where you want it.

 

Using routing nodes (drag and drop 'elastic band' adjustments to the route) to get you off of the main roads and onto the minor ones, as I prefer, usually only needs something like 12 per day with 200 mile days. In my experience my 660 tends to follow these effectively. IMHO I think the lack of preferences helps with this consistency. Prior to the Zumo 660 and Basecamp, i.e. Zumo 550 models and earlier combined with Mapsource, there was no such thing as usage profiles for car, bike etc. and it worked well. Garmin trying to be smart messed it up.

I'm pretty meticulous about my planning rather than being spontaneous on the day, call me unadventurous if you like :smile: Different people use sat navs in different ways. Granted, if spontaneity is you thing then the default set-up of the GPS with pre-set routing preferences might make a boring A-B route more interesting.

 

Thanks for that Bumpkin, gives me hope for Basecamp, will be giving it a go again.

I can get it all on the GPS no problem, used it for years and customised with Ash's great camera manager worked a treat on my Nuvi, but on the Zumo/BMW Navigator the warning bongs would just be continuous on the approach to a camera rather then just the one or two bongs. Maybe its the BMW firmware? The garmin camera database works fine, but I would rather use the GPS world one, allowed my sub to slip last year after 5 years or so of membership.

Also the Garmin express software never works properly for me just stops downloading the maps half way through, I revert to the older mapupdater software which always works.

 

Just installed ITN Converter; as you say it looks good for initial route planning especially with the Michelin maps loaded. It will be ideal to share route ideas with a mate when we're planning a tour.

Not tried this but it makes a lot of sense. Similar to the Sat Nav getting confused when riding some passes with tight zig zag roads as it thinks you're going the wrong way on the section above/below.

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Back to @Gimlet original question, which Sat Nav: it probably depends on what you're prepared to pay and what additional features you want, as any motorcycle specific Sat Nav will do the navigation bit equally well. At the end of the day, you'll get used to it and will learn to get the most out of it. You'll also be frustrated by some of the strange things it'll do. You'll also have hours of fun planning routes and even more fun riding them.

 

If you set a destination with auto re-calculate and take random turnings when the fancy takes you you eventually get where you want to be by a semi random route and you can fine tune the time of arrival. Or you can set home as a destination, randomly ride about keeping half an eye on the predicted time of arrival at home then follow the route home to arrive at the required time.